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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (October-December) » Archive through December 12, 2004 » The séimhiú « Previous Next »

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 104
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 12:22 am:   Edit Post Print Post

just some info...there are some really nice seancló fonts out there. the one i've found the easiest to type with is Gaeilge, from the Yamada Language Center and a US System 6 keyboard layout (doesn't differ from a regular layout except that option+consonant gives you the appropriate séimhiú)...apple's unicode stuff is really keen too...especially for web pages. the séimhiú is kind of annoying in that you type the consonant first, and then hit option+W (that's three keys, including the shift) but should be readable by any program that can read unicode, which will be all of them in a few years it seems...and most browsers. I've just found that one can type with the h's and then do a "find/replace" to turn them all into séimhiús at once.

I only mention this because I believe it's easier to learn pronunciation with a séimhiú and then learn about the h's but not the other way around. The obvious pitfall using a seancló font is letter recognition, but, and perhaps i'm wrong on this, the only letter that causes any *real* trouble is the lowercase s, but i haven't seen that remain a problem after a few pages...thoughts?

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 205.188.116.136
Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 03:17 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Links to check 'em out?

-Maidhc.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 106
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 11:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

i'm afraid i didn't mark them down as they were TTF and i have a mac...but vincent morley was the artist who put them together...they were seanclo gaelclo urclo bunclo and a few others...sorry, i didn't know i would be asked for links.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 554
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 04:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post

http://www.fainne.org/gaelchlo is where you will find Vincent's fonts.

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 64.12.116.135
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 02:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Ok, I've got the bunchló ársa in, but I don't get the part about 'find/replace'. I've also loaded in the Keymng32.exe, but I can still only make seimhiú with 'h'.
Any advice?
-Maidhc

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 81
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 01:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I've been looking at some of the seanchló fonts and wondering: what is the symbol that lies between the numerals 1-0 and the pound and euro signs?

Anyone?

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 562
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 05:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Those are two old abbrievations for "agus"

The commonly used one is the one which looks like a 7

The other is a stylised latin "et" and

(Message edited by aonghus on December 10, 2004)

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 193.1.100.102
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 06:35 am:   Edit Post Print Post

'et' agus '7' a chairde, 'ampersand' a thugtar air. Giorrúchán ar an 'et' is ea an '7'. Tá sé bunaithe ar an ionad teagmhála idir an dá litir, 'e' agus 't', ach a scríobh an-tapa. Scríobhtaí iad, 'et' agus '7', in áit 'ocus' / 'agus' le spás an pháir a shábháil.
Nuair a léití as lámhscríbhinn ina dhiaidh sin iad, is é 'ocus'/'agus', nó 'is', a deirtí. Cleas nodaireachta don scríobh amháin a bhí ann, cleas nár tháinig sé isteach sa chaint.

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 83
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 07:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat.

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 193.1.100.102
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 08:00 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Fáilte romhat a Phádraig.

(Deis agam anseo mo scríobh féin thuas a cheartú:
nár tháinig sé isteach sa chaint >
nár tháinig isteach sa chaint.)

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 152.163.100.135
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 02:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

YES! After much trial and error, wthin 'Bunchló Ársa', I find that I'm able to create seimhiú using the "ALT+0..." commands.
For some reason, it doesn't work with just Windows. That is, if you don't have the Irish font, you can't just type in the command and get a roman letter with seimhiú.
Anyway, for anyone interested...

B ALT+0161 b 0162
C 164 c 165
D 166 d 171
F 176 f 177
G 178 g 179
M 180 m 181
P 183 p 185
S 187 s 191
T 215 t 247

Very cool.
-Maidhc.

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 168.12.253.66
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 02:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

MaidÑ

Not on this PC. Look what it just did to your name.

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 152.163.100.135
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 02:41 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I wasn't using the Bunchló - nor am I now. As I said , it doesn't work with just Windows. Also, I think I may have to cut and paste out of 'Word' (Where I have my copy of bunchló.) in order to use the font on other sites. I'm still new to most of the gismos in the computer, too.

-Mai«c. Hmm. And as we can see, it refused to cut and paste properly as well, even though it looked correct in word.

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 107
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 02:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

they are font specific things. You will not be able to get the séimhiú with any other roman font. That's where unicode comes in. with that you can, but i don't think windows uses unicode.

once again an diabhál bill gates standing in the way of diversity and cross cultural exchange of ideas...sigh...

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 152.163.100.135
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 02:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I wasn't using bunchló there, nor am I now. I tried to do a cut and paste to put my name in and even though it looked correct in 'Word" (where I have my copy of bunchló.), it still followed the normal Windows command for the copy and paste. Which resulted in the wrong image to be copied. Darn.
I haven't yet tried to use it through my printer.
-Maidhc.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 570
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 03:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Maidhc - the problem is that the number used in bunchló for the d seimhithe is a different character in the font which this site uses - and you have no control over that. Even if it were unicode, not all fonts need have the character.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 108
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

unicode has a character for "dot the consonant before" rather than a code for "dotted d" or "dotted g"...that works with any save the most fancy fonts

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 205.188.116.136
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 01:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Anois arís. Oh well.
It works like a charm through my printer though. Another way around might be to create the document, save into a file (printer?), and then do a 'click and drag'. Letting the computer fool itself? Naw, that's just crazy talk. LOL.

-Maidhc.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 577
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 01:17 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Remember that this board uses html; which uses the fonts on peoples machines, not necessarily unicode.

As far as I know, HTML only uses 7 bit ascii; and has special (html) codes for accented characters. I doubt that codes for "seimhiú" have been implemented yet.

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 110
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 04:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

i'm sure if you knew the html code for the séimhiú, you could use the unicode (like typing &_a_acute with no underscores will give you á), but if the viewers browser doesn't support unicode they won't see it. fortunately, I believe that the most up to date versions of safari, internet explorer, and netscape do (as well as appleworks, microsoft office and textedit)

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Dearg
Member
Username: Dearg

Post Number: 18
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 06:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I bought some fonts from Everson Typography:
http://www.evertype.com/

His site has tons of information on using Celtic fonts.

I used one of his fonts as a study aid I was building. I was thinking of distributing it on the web and asking for donations, but I never finished it--so it is both incomplete and incorrect! But it shows the old fonts and séimhiú:

http://www.mirandacorp.com/celtic/irish/LouIrish101.pdf

You'll notice that you can see these fonts in Acrobat Reader because they're embedded in the PDF--you don't have to own/install the fonts to view that document.

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 111
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 07:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

even with that, i've found most people can see what i send them properly, but some cannot. why might that be?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 582
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 05:19 am:   Edit Post Print Post

If you mean by e-mail, it is because there are several dozen different softwares involved, some of which may mess up unicode characters along the way.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 584
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 07:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I've googled a bit, and I can't find any html code for lenition. Not all of unicode has made it into html yet.

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 115
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 08:59 am:   Edit Post Print Post

no, i mean by sending them a pdf...sometimes it works, sometimes not, even tho they are all using adobe to open it up

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Dearg
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Username: Dearg

Post Number: 19
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 02:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Antaine, if people are having a hard time reading your PDFs, then either their version of Acrobat is older than yours, or they're using an older operating system (OS 9 and earlier; Windows 98 and earlier) that may not support all its features (such as Unicode and such).

Another possibility is that the fonts aren't actually embedded. There's an option in some PDF-creating tools as to whether you want the fonts embedded. Embedding fonts makes the file a little bigger, so some people/tools choose not to do it. Also, some fonts/typefaces are copy protected and cannot be embedded.

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 119
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 03:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm using appleworks 6 on OS X, and the Gaeilge font, which is not unicode. 8 or 9 out of 10 people I send it to can see the characters properly but some cannot...I believe you are right and that they are using an unupdated version of acrobat...

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Dearg
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Username: Dearg

Post Number: 21
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 04:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Oh so you're using Save As PDF... from the Print menu? That should be pretty compatible. But I guess I've never tried it on an old version (pre-version 4.0) of Acrobat.



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