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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (October-December) » Archive through December 27, 2004 » Favorite irish words « Previous Next »

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 53
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post

perhaps it is the OCD in me, but i've had a word running obsessively thru my head the last few days.

what words do you feel exemplify the music of the Irish language. Words that either look elegant on the page, or roll off the tongue just right?

my word of the week? "críochnaithe"

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Lúcas
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Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 57
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 04:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Understanding Irish idiom gives me a rush. Mar shampla, I just found this sentence in a short story:

Ná bí ina dhiaidh orm.
Don't blame me.

I guess the prepositional pronoun 'orm' conveys the sense of the burden of blame 'on me' that comes 'after it' happens, i.e., 'ina dhiaidh.' In this case, the speaker had just confessed to lying, and he was trying to explain why circumstances compelled him to do it.

Mise le meas,

Lúcas

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Natalie
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Username: Natalie

Post Number: 84
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 04:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I like words that I can remember because I can't remember a lot of Irish words! :)

Natalie

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 56
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, November 22, 2004 - 04:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

mise leis, tá bron orm

oh, Lúcas...remember that carta gramadach? well...I made some improvements...i'm sending liam a couple to have tómas put in the shop for the next weekend, but i figure you may want a look as it is very much your thing. i had a section with syntactic examples, but it wasn't easy enough to read so i took it out in favor of a title. I've got all the verb examples from Briathra na Gaeilge conjugated in tables on one side (including negative questions, which they don't have), and the other has tables of prepositional pronouns, about 175 "useful verbs" color coded by conjugation, the copula, prefixes, prossession and lenition/eclipsis...noun declension, time words, and three diagrams illustrating the difference between up,up,up and down,down,down/location in 3 dimensions/ and inside/inward, outside/outward...all on one double sided sheet made from photo paper so it looks puuurdy...i know you'll want one :o)

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Diarmo
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Username: Diarmo

Post Number: 71
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 06:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Lucas I think people say still 'dont be after me' me in English here!

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 275
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 07:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post

The phrase, "Sean's after you." is common here in Dublin.

"diaidh" not only applies to time, but to space aswell. For instance, "He ran after her.":

Rith sé ina diaidh.

Or time:

after the storm
i ndiaidh na stoirme

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 12.75.243.66
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 07:36 am:   Edit Post Print Post

After me is very commonly used as "He's always after me to sing a song,"

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James
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Username: James

Post Number: 74
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 09:05 am:   Edit Post Print Post

My father used to say to me, "Don't make me have to get after you, boy!" As in, "Don't make me have to get after you, boy...now get out there and (insert unpleasant task of choice here)!" Or, "Did you feed the dogs, yet?" "No, Dad" Well, I don't want to have to get after you so you better get it done."

Probably one of those lingering linguistic links that has endured in the rural south. Like Clabber biscuits, brogans (low cut work boots) and countless others.

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Aingeal
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Username: Aingeal

Post Number: 24
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 11:20 am:   Edit Post Print Post

That's also said in certain area of the north. I konw my grandparents say it.

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Searlas
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Username: Searlas

Post Number: 21
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 12:38 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I tell my daughter "Don't make me get after you!" quite often. It's a very common saying in the Midwest.

Regards,

Searlas

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Lúcas
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Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 58
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 01:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thank you all for the feedback on that idiom; it's one I had never heard before in English.

It is interesting how Irish idiom has continued into Irish-English, but has become foreign to a Poncan like me. (Rugadh i gcondae Dhun na nGall athair mo mhathar agus mathair mo mhathar ach rugadh seanthuismitheoirí m'athar i gcondae Dhoire.)

A few years ago I remember studing Irish at Oideas Gael, in Glencolmcille in County Donegal, when, ocassionaly, I had to ask for a translation of the Irish-English into American-English. For example, I heard the word 'buataisí' in a conversation in class and I asked what it meant in English.
"Sin 'Wellies'", someone said.
"What are 'Wellies'?", I asked.
"Wellington's", someone else replied, looking at me like I did not hear the answer.
"O.K., What are Wellington's?", I asked.

Then I think the class realized, and surprisingly so did I, that I really was from a foreign country, the United States of America. They patiently explained that Wellies were the high boots that General, later Prime Minister, Arthur Wellesley, the Duke of Wellington, often wore. Many Irish women, I was told (Most of my fellow students were Irish women school teachers.), considered them quite fashionable.

This was an Epiphany for me to realize that I had an Irish heritage and an American culture, and that the two were fundamentally different. As a child in America other children would say I was Irish while they were Italian, German, Greek, Portugese, Lithuanian, ... It was not until that class thatI realized they were wrong.

Consequently, I get great satisfaction when I am able to pentrate any of the mysteries of Irish idiom. Thank you again for the insight.

(Message edited by lúcas on November 23, 2004)

Mise le meas,

Lúcas

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Lúcas
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Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 59
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 03:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Antaine, a chara,

You fit all that stuff on one carta grammadaigh! Amazing. You have peaked my curiosity.

Mise le meas,

Lúcas

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 62
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 03:51 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

haha...i knew you would...if you want to email me your address i'll make up one special for you ;o)

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Rebecca (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.148.159
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 04:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

That's funny because though I have worn wellies quite often I would certainly not consider them fashionable...to me and all my friends and anyone I have ever met (up until now) wellies are the horrible rubber boots that you wear out in the rain. They are a neccessity in Ireland when it's pouring rain and you don't want your shoes to get drenched. But they are mainly worn by children nowadays unless you're out in a muddy field down the country!!

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 12.75.179.75
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 05:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

One time you wouldn't see them in the US but now they've become quite popular for garden wear and rainwear.

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Lúcas
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Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 61
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 05:58 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Rebecca, You mean Wellies aren't fashionable!? Looks like my teachers were mocking this ignorant American.

Mise le meas,

Lúcas

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Lúcas
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Username: Lúcas

Post Number: 62
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 06:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Antaine, a chara,

This seems like deja vu all over again, but what's your address? Mine is posted with my profile.

Mise le meas,

Lúcas

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TSJ (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 66.105.234.1
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 02:50 am:   Edit Post Print Post

When I was growing up in Ireland we never referred to our rubber boots as wellingtons. We always called them cossacks or Russian boots.

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 278
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 04:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I've lived in Dublin all my life and we call them "Welleys" (doesn't become "-ies" after a vowel, eg. monkeys, donkeys)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 455
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 04:34 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Since the bould Wellington was a dub like us, why wouldn't we give him credit!

I'd quarrel with the eys though, I've always seen it written wellies:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=wellie
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=wellington%20boot

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 281
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 08:33 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Oh, I assumed that the singular was "welly". If the singular is in fact "wellie", then "wellies" is the correct plural!

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 66.105.234.61
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 02:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

The term "wellingtons" was common enough and I often heard it used. What I was wondering was, is there anyone else in Dublin who is familiar with the terms cossacks and Russian boots. I did not personally coin these words. They were already in current use at the time.

By the way, I didn't know that Wellington was a Dubliner. I was given to understand that he was born in Meath. Be that as it may, I hardly consider him an Irishman just because he was born in Ireland. So too were Lord Kitchener and Sir Henry Wilson.

I once heard a "story" about Wellington. I cannot vouch for its veracity but here is how it went. Someone pointed out to Wellington that since he was born in Ireland, he was therefore an Irishman. To which he is supposedd to have responded. " Just because a man is born in a stable doesn't mean that he is a horse". For that reason and others, he is not one of my heroes.

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TSJ (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 66.105.234.61
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 02:51 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

The previous posting about Wellington didn't pick up my user-name. Sorry, this TSJ.

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Rebecca (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 213.202.168.34
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 05:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Well we certainly called them wellies...in Dublin. I recently mentioned it to a friend of mine who said that wellies were mentioned on 'off the rails' (an irish fashion programme) last year, they said they were fashionable. So maybe you're teachers weren't making fun of you.
Then again, I have yet to see anyone actually wear wellies on a night out or in fact at any time unless they're in a muddy field, as I previously stated!

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Learned
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Username: Learned

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 10:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

My Fav Oirish word is Failte so far. :) Welcome.

Am I pronouncing it right though? Im pronouncing it fail- tay ?

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 67
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 10:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

close... FAILchuh or FAWLchuh depending on specific accent.

maith thú

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 461
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 05:10 am:   Edit Post Print Post

You may be right about Wellington not being a dub. He went to school in the building which holds the soon to be closed Bewleys café on Grafton Street, and there is a sign on it in "remembrance".

My (facetious) Dub comment was based on that and on the dreaful needle in the Park commemorating the varous slaughters he led troops in.

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 286
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 05:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Here's an extract I whipped from the web:

quote:

The Viceroy's Lodge - now Áras an Uachtaráin , the president's residence - is here, as well as a 205-foot obelisk erected in 1817 in tribute to the Duke of Wellington . Wellington was born in Dublin, but was less than proud of his roots - when reminded that he was Irish by birth, the Duke replied tersely "being born in a stable doesn't make one a horse."



Breith dhuine i stábla, ní dhéanann sé capall de!

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Dearg
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Username: Dearg

Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 11:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Antaine,

"críochnaithe" -- isn't that in the chorus of an Afro Celt Sound System song? I can't think of which one right now...

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 51
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 07:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Not my favorite, but this sparks my curiosity:

féachaigí agus breathnáigí

Are these legitimate words and if they are, how do they differ? They seem to be imperatives. Also, is aigí a word unto itself without the feach or breath?

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 12.75.207.76
Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 09:51 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

They are the imperatives of feach - look, see and breathnaigh - examine, observe. I don't recall aigi as a word.

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Antaine
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Username: Antaine

Post Number: 75
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 10:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

aige and aici are

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 296
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Look!

Féach!

It's an order.

Breathnaigh!

"breathnaigh" is another word which has a round about meaning of "look", just like in English we have "view" "watch" "see"...

Anyway, in Irish you have plural orders, in which you are addressing multiple people, for instance:

Boys, look!

A bhuachaillí, féachaigí!


Hurry girls, hurry!
Brostaigí a chailíní, brostaigí!

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 52
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 05:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

And so we learn something new everyday. I can sort out the look vs. watch, but the thing that had me confused was the plural form of the imperative which, in English doesn't inflect. Unless you're from south of the Mason-Dixon in which case the inflected form would be "Y'all look and y'all watch.

Buíochas, a Fhear na mbróg.

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Natalie
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Username: Natalie

Post Number: 90
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 06:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Since we're all about learning on this particular thread, may I ask a question as well? (By the way, I hope you people don't dread it when I say I have a question because I don't want to be the annoying one) Anyway, how do you say "I want" and "I need" in Irish? Because my book (Teach Yourself Irish) says this (and this is word for word):

"There are two expression, both of which invovle the personal forms of ó. I want a cup of tea can be translated in either of the following ways:

Tá cupán tae uaim
lit. A cup of tea is from me

Teastaíonn cupán tae uaim
lit. A cup of tea is needed from me"

Anyway, later in this little section it goes on and on about these two different ways of saying "I want..." (as the section is so creatively called) but it keeps saying it means either need or want. So I've decided to start from scratch with this phrase. Can someone help me out?

Natalie

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 53
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 12:31 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Natalie, a chara,

In English there is a subtle difference between want and need. The former has to do with desiring something; the latter concerns that which is essential. I want extravagant riches; I need food.

Foclóir Póca doesn't seem to make this distinction.

However, to further confuse the issue, FP proffers this phrase:

"tá sé ag teastáil uaim,"

and translates it as "I want it." (or "I need it.") Your literal translation of "Teastaíonn cupán tae uaim" as "a cup of tea is needed from me" reminds us that the verb teastaigh is not a transitive verb as it is in English.

I want (desire) a cup of tea. (transitive -- object tea.)
A cup of tea is wanted from me. (intransitive -- passive voice.)

Of course, should we choose to say the latter in English our prepositional phrase would be "by me." I had to learn early not to expect direct correlations between English and Irish prepositions.

This makes sense to me so long as I remember that Irish isn't English. I hope I haven't muddied the water.

le meas

Addendum: I plan to avoid the whole issue by saying "ba mhaith liom cupán tae."

(Message edited by pádraig on November 30, 2004)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 486
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 04:21 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Ba mhaith liom x = I would like
Tá x uaim = I want x
Tá x de dhíth orm = I need x
Teastaíonn x uaim = I require x

It is not a clear cut as want and need can be in English; but that is the way I would express the distinctions.

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 297
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 06:47 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Okay firstly, stop saying the following:

Tea is wanted from me.

because it simply isn't what it means. In English that would actually mean something else entirely -- that somebody is looking for tea off of you. A good example:

Money is wanted from me.

Anyway... moving on:

The preposition "ó" is used in conjunction with the verb "teastaigh" to mean "want". Here's how I myself use it:

He wants a car.
Tá carr ag teastáil uaidh. (uaidh = ó + é)

Often you'll see:

I want a pen.
Tá peann uaim.

Which... in theory could mean "A pen is from me." but it doesn't, because it means "I want a pen.". Anyway. Here's how I use them:

I would like a dog.
Ba mhaith liom madra.

I want a carr.
Tá carr ag teastáil uaim.

I want to go to the shop.
Teastaíonn uaim dul go dtí an siopa.

I need a pen.
Is gá dom peann a bheith agam.
Ní mór dom peann a bheith agam.
Tá peann de dhíth orm.
Táim i ngáthar pinn. (maybe a bit much...)

As for "require", I don't use that verb in English, so I wouldn't be able to translate for you.

One thing though that I've never got clarity about: How do you say:

I want money from you.

The following:

Tá airgead uaim uaidh.

seems ambiguous to me; as does:

Tá airgead ag teastáil uaim uaidh.

...unless ofcourse there's a strict word order I'm unaware of. I suppose you could always cop-out with:

Teastaíonn uaim airgead a fháil uaidh.

As for "can", as in to have the ability to carry out a particular action/process/procedure (be it a physical/emotional/mental/psychological ability), I use:

Is féidir liom

although there's loads of ways of saying it:

Ní raibh mé in ann é a dhéanamh.
Níor fhéad mé é a fheiceáil.
Nílim ábalta í a chríochnú.

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Seán a' Chaipín (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 81.139.17.150
Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 07:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I like the phrase:

Siolla gaoithe

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Pbrady
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Username: Pbrady

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 06:16 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

You might also consider using the verb "iarr."

Tá mé ag iarraidh madra. I want a dog.

I understand that it is considered more of a demand rather than a request and its use should be limited to statements rather than a request.

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Natalie
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Username: Natalie

Post Number: 92
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 07:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Ok...First of all, I don't think I have ever used the words "wanted from me" in my life but let's pretend that that's what I did want to say, how would I go about saying that? And I also agree with the fact that the book's phrase doesn't make sense, in the context I'm assuming it intended. When something is "wanted from me" then I think that someone else wants something from me, but for quick clarification, that's not what they're saying right?

So anyway, the book I have does mention the "ag teastáil" example and its possible that briefly a few of the more famaliar examples may have been used without explanations. To sum up more quickly what I'm grasping from this topic, are you saying that in Irish there is not as much emphasis on the difference between wanting something and needing something?

For example, how would you translate these few sentences:

I want a horse.
I need money.
I want money.
I need a job.

Oh and one more thing. As for Fear na mBróg's example:

I need a pen.
Is gá dom peann a bheith agam.
Ní mór dom peann a bheith agam.
Tá peann de dhíth orm.
Táim i ngáthar pinn.

I didn't catch that whole thing at all. I think it went in my brain and out my ear except for the third one because it was already above (Tá peann de dhíth orm). Sorry to be a constant bother!

Natalie

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 493
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 04:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post






I want a horse. Ba mhaith liom capall
I need money.Tá airgead de dhíth orm
I want money. Ba mhaith liom airgead
I need a job.Tá post de dhíth orm

You could also use
gá [ainmfhocal firinscneach den cheathrú díochlaonadh]
easpa, riachtanas.

Tá gá agam le post (airgead)

There are many, many, finely nuanced ways of expressing need or want.

Ní mór is a way of expressing essential.

This is how I would translate the following back to english




Is gá dom peann a bheith agam.
It is a requirement that I have a pen
Ní mór dom peann a bheith agam.It is essential that I have a pen
Tá peann de dhíth orm.I need a pen right now
Táim i ngáthar pinn.I lack a pen

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Pádraig
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Username: Pádraig

Post Number: 54
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 12:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Short of immersion (I can't resist the analogy of drowning) the only way I can imagine that we of the dispersion can get this straight is to take all this information and construct a lesson specifically around it, repeating the various phrases aloud until it becomes automatic. That's the principle behind learning conversational whatever.

Is mise Pádraig.
Is maith liom pizza.
Ar mhaith leat pizza?
Ba mhaith liom pizza, go raibh maith agat.
Agus tú fein?
Tá pizza ag teastáil uaim.
Ach tá pizza de dhíth orm.

If I can find someone willing to put up with this sort of exchange long enough, eventually the nuances of expression become internalized, and I'm no longer translating in my head before speaking.

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Sean a' Chaipin (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 217.45.211.12
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 12:25 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Well, a thread entitled "Favourite Irish Words" becomes yet again an exercise in pedantic one-upmanship.

So does anybody actually like any Irish words?

Why does every thread have to be hijacked by pedants?

Another word I like, in sound and appearance on the page, is:

Neamhthuisceanach

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Paul (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 66.152.218.225
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 02:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Aontaím leat, a Sheáin.

Is breá liom an focal “mac tíre.”

Paul

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 501
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 04:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Is breá liomsa gach focal! Go hairithe na focla a chuireann brí beacht in iúl. So I'm a pedant!

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 502
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Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Daoibhse a bhfuil galar na focail oraibh, bainigí trial as "An Béal Beo", le Tomás Ó Máille. Tá saibhreas dochreidte ann.

http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=720

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 05:48 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

How about smugairle róin?

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Pádraig
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Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 06:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Why does every thread have to be hijacked by pedants?

sigh...

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Pádraig
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Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 08:54 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Is mise saoithín fosta, de bhrí go "is breá liomsa gach focal ... a chuireann brí beacht in iúl." Besides, choppy though my Irish may be, it would be far worse were it not for the "pedantry" that proceeds from he likes of Aonghus et al. As someone said earlier" go raibh Dia idir sinn agus an t-aineolas.

(Message edited by pádraig on December 01, 2004)

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Pádraig
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Post Number: 58
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Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 09:34 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Aonghus,

Béal seems to be one of those words whose meaning requires a context; ie, béal bán & dul ar bhéal don't seem to have anything remotely in common.
How do you translate the title of O'Malley's book which you cited above? An Béal Beo.

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Antaine
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Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 11:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

hm...even though I wasn't asked...i would have said the living word, or the living tongue, the word béal standing in as a poetic substitute for that which issues from it

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Aonghus
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Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 05:26 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Tagaim le hAntaine. Na focail atá i mbéal na ndaoine. (which is the usual way to say "in daily speech")

All meanings of béal are derived from mouth. But it has been long used for speech - consider "An Béal Bocht". Or even "mealy-mouthed" in English.

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Pádraig
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Post Number: 60
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Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Chairde,

With apologies to Antaine who began this thread, I'm taking another opportunity to digress because this thread seems to be attracting considerable attention.

What I'd like to say in defense of the course these discussions take is that over the past couple years I notice more and more intelligible Irish coming out of persons such as James and Máidhc O.G. I suspect that this growth is two-fold. They're learning to speak better Irish and I'm learning to understand it. Moreover, I'm convinced that this site and the "nit-picking" of certain others have a lot to do with this growth.

Síocháin

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Seán a' Chaipín (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 03:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Lá fuar millteach dorcha a bhí ann inné agus chuir sé cantal orm. Maithigí dom a chairde agus go méadaigh Dia sibh go léir.

Focal eile: gliondar (joy)

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat, a Phádraig.
Much of my stuff was ruined a while ago when our basement got flooded. Bhí foclóir nua agus leabhair nua orm a gceannach. Agus bím ag obair trí n-uaire mhór i lae seo. (Níl cinnteach orm faoin sin..:) )
Tá súil agam go ngheobhaidh mé am níos mhór chun an Ghaeilge a foghlaim anois.
le meas,
Maidhc.

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Antaine
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Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 03:23 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I will never complain if a thread gets into something interesting, nitty-gritty wise =)

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Pádraig
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Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 04:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Sheáin a'Chaipín, a chara,

Is breá liom na focla:
Go mbeannaí Dia uilechumhachtach thú.

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Natalie
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Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 04:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I did have something bitter and angry to say about pedantry but a good mother tells you to never to be disrectful (and she's watching) so I shall hold back. I will though, in accordance with Pádraig, apologize to Antaine for helping to get this conversation off track in the "one-upmanship". Yes Sean, I am mocking you.

But back on track, I don't know very many Irish words so therefore I don't have very many favorites. But I will tell you a word I don't like, "capall". I don't know why, but I really love those animals and for some reason the word sticks out as not doing justice to it (not that I'm going to come up with a new word and impose it on everyone or anything). :) So what about it? Are there any words you don't like, instead of words you do like?

Natalie

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Pádraig
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Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 04:37 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Natalie, a chara,

About an hour ago Sean posted a message which I assume was sincere. It's beautiful, and his choice of words suggests a touch of the poet.

As for the horse. The sound of the English word also falls short of doing justice to the beast. In fact, so does the word beast. There are other terms in Irish such as gearrán or beithioch, but when pronounced they elicit in me a similar image, that of a hard working beast of burden. Perhaps this is due to the fact that during the time when languages were evolving, the horse was designated according to its purpose, which was to work -- and work hard.

At any rate, my vision of horses is summed up in the word mustang for which there is no Irish translation.

I almost forgot: the diminutive, capaillín has a more pleasant sound. Try that on for sound. (size)

(Message edited by pádraig on December 02, 2004)

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Seán a' Chaipín (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 05:01 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Capall comes from Latin, caballus.

There's an older Irish word: "each".

There's also láir (which is "a mare" I think.

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Natalie
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Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 08:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Than in all fairness, I do apologize to Seán because I never got as far to continue reading. Anyway, I don't know why the word "capall" doesn't sound right to me. It's probably just my foolishness, but I guess the idea of the fact that they were working animals might come from something. I looked up the word "láir" in my dictionary and it says it is mare, which is somewhat better. Does anyone know what the word "filly" is in Irish. I like the sound of that in English better than I do for the word "horse". It sounds pretty. I got the word "searrach" for foal.

(Message edited by natalie on December 02, 2004)

Natalie

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Aonghus
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Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 05:11 am:   Edit Post Print Post

filly is láirín, I'm sure (little mare)

but an Foclóir Beag is demanding a password at the moment, so I can't check.

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 08:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post

láir [ainmfhocal baininscneach]
capall nó asal baineann.

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 09:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I have the word 'cliobóg' for 'filly'

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Rebecca (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 09:56 am:   Edit Post Print Post

There is also 'láireog'

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Tomás (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 11:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Is maith liom an focal "aiteall". Tá sé an-oiriúnach le haimsir na hÉireann.

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Pádraig
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Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 08:08 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I've often wondered what percentage of the time it is raining in a given part of Ireland.

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Aonghus
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Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 11:03 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Less than 10% I would say. Or do you mean the percentage of time where rain is falling in at least one place in Ireland?

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Lúcas
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Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 11:44 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Is focal aoibhinn 'ioscaid' agus na cora cainte leis, mar shampla,

Beidh mise sna hioscaidí agat.
I will be in the hollows behind your knees at you, i.e., I will be following right behind you.

Cuir bealadh faoi d'ioscaidí.
Put grease under the hollows of your knees, i.e., "Grease your hams", quicken your pace, hurry up.

Ní lúbann tú ioscaid.
You do not bend the hollow behind your knee, i.e., you never sit.

Nó cad fána focail faoi mar ioscadán - knock-kneed person nó ioscadach - knock-kneed.

(Message edited by lúcas on December 04, 2004)

Mise le meas,

Lúcas

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Lúcas
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Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post

'Aiteall' is a great word. It reminds of the first time I visited Dublin. I took a bus tour of the city. The driver said the weather was fine last week. It only rained twice; once for three days and once for four.

Mise le meas,

Lúcas

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Paul (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 02:18 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A chairde,
An bhfuil fhios ag éinne cén fáth go díreach ‘mac tíre’ = ‘wolf’?

Go raibh maith agat.
Paul

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Pádraig
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Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 02:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Re: an t-aiteall, I was thinking along the lines of that old Victorian bromide about the sun never setting on the British Empire. Anecdotes like the one from Lucas (above) lead us disaporites to imagine that it never stops raining in (somewhere in)Ireland.

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Aonghus
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Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 02:32 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Mac tíre means "son of the countryside"
I suspect it might be a euphemism for a dangerous animal.

Their is also "faolchú" (wild hound) for wolf.

As for the jokes about weather in Ireland, that is just what they are. I haven't been rained on for a least a week now, and haven't been drenched by rain for months. It does rain frequently in Ireland, after all there is several thousand kilometers of ocean for clouds to build up on.

But day long rain is rarer here than in Berlin, where I lived for 10 years.

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Rebecca (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, December 04, 2004 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Did you ever hear of four seasons in one day? That is what we get quite often here in Ireland....I always thought it would be easy to predict the forecast here because all you have to say is 'it'll be cloudy with some scattered showers and patches of sunshine'!!

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 03:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Or, how 'bout, "The sun will rise and rain may follow."
On topic though, my favorite word is 'gáifeach'. It seems to take any noun or other adjective to the nth degree or at least place it in a well exaggerated state.
It's also, in its older spelling form, the origin of my surname. :)

-Maidhc Ó Gáibhtheacháin

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Natalie
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Post Number: 97
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Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 03:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thank you for the word "filly", I just haven't been online in awhile. As for the raining in Ireland, that's how I picture it too. Here in Canada, we're into the snow/ice/hail weather now. And we sometimes get all four season at once as well! Last week, it snowed, then it rained, then the sun came out and I swam/walked through a foot of slush. It wasn't pleasant.

Natalie

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Paul (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 04:45 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A chairde,
Getting back to my favorite word, “mac tíre,”
does the Father Dineen dictionary have word
origins? If so, I’d be interested to hear what
the background of this word is. (I don’t own a copy).

I have a Japanese-speaking friend
who spent time in a rural area in Japan that had a lot of
monkeys running wild. She said the
area’s farmers all referred to them
as “uncle of the forest.”
Just thought I’d pass that along...

Go raibh maith agaibh.

Le meas,
Paul

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Dan Armor (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 05:22 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I wonder if anyone can help me find the Irish words or phrase for: "True love found"

I am soon to marry the most beautiful Irish woman in the world (her last name is Daly)

Thank you, Dan

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 535
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Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 04:27 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Paul, Dineen does not give origins.

However, there is a whole raft of "mac" words in the dictionary - so I think it is fair to say that it means "associated with" as well as "son"


Dan
I'd say "Grá buan aimsithe" but it sounds awkward in Irish.

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Paul (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 09:25 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat, a Aonghuis.
Tá orm mo chóip féin Dineen a fháil.

Beir bua,
Paul

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Aonghus
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Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 09:30 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá sé fós i gcló/ i gcló arís, agus is fiú go mór cóip a bheith agat. Níl 40 Euro ró olc (cé go bhfuaireas mo chóip fhein i siopa dara lámh ar 5 punt den tsean airgead)

http://www.eofeasa.ie/cuplafocal//catalog/product_info.php?products_id=897&langu age=ga&osCsid=8cec961432a5ea137bcff9a0a60d14d4

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 10:02 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Mightn't 'Fíorghrá tagtha' be a bit better for "true love found"?

-Maidhc.

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Aonghus
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Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 04:38 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Tagtha is arrived rather than found.

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Maidhc Ó G. (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 11:23 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Ok, I see that,. I tried to make it shorter from 'Ar fíorghrá tagtha', which I, rightly or wrongly, took as " came across or discovered true love". Hmm. I'm still not sure of the comfort or awkwardness of that either.

Le meas,
-Maidhc.

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 549
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Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 11:31 am:   Edit Post Print Post

fíor [aidiacht den chéad díochlaonadh]
ceart, díreach mar atá nó mar a tharla; dílis (cara fíor, nóta fíor).

buan [aidiacht den chéad díochlaonadh]
a mhaireann, a sheasann, nach n-athraíonn choíche.


I feel that "grá buan" is closer to the meaning of "True love" than "fíor ghrá"

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Akidd
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Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2004 - 02:06 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

uafás/uafásach ; scanrúil

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Cailín (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 04:22 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I LOVE the word maoithneach. It's my favourite Irish word because it sounds more like its meaning than the English word: sentimental. The word maoithneach sounds soft and dreamy but the word sentimental sounds harsh because of the 's'.

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 620
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Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 04:45 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Is fíor sin. Tá focal bréa ag na Gearmainaigh - Lautmalerei - focail a leiríonn pictiúr dhuit, lena bhfuaim. Onomatopeia a thugtar ar sa Bhéarla, focal nach dtuigeann duine ar bith ó fuair muid réidh le Gréigís sna scoileanna.

Tá "soineanta" deas freisin

soineann [ainmfhocal baininscneach den dara díochlaonadh]
calm, ceansacht aimsire, aimsir bhreá; (le duine) ciúnas, suaimhneas aigne, saontacht.

Agus céard déarfá le "borb": focal laidir a chuireann a bhrí in iúl go tréan.



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