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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2004 (October-December) » Archive through October 30, 2004 » Another use for 'trá' « Previous Next »

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Poblachtach
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Username: Poblachtach

Post Number: 25
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 07:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I know trá means ebb , or decline but does it have another meaning ?

I ask becuase I have this sentence that doesnt make much sense if it is 'ebb'

Dúairt sí go fánaidh sí trá .

and while I am here , I have seen a different spelling for Dúairt , as well , I have seen it written duirt si. is it a tomatoes , tamatoes thing ?

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Liam Smith (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 68.191.70.216
Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 08:20 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

It is, indeed "ebb, subsidance or decline," but it is also "Strand, beach," according to Foclóir Scoile.

I can't explain Irish spellings, yet.

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James
Member
Username: James

Post Number: 46
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 08:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm not terribly proficient but I would translate this to say:

She said that she wandered the beach.

I've seen trá used more for "beach" or "strand" than I have for ebb.

Le meas,

James

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 266
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 04:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post

This looks like a misspelling of "tráth", a while or period.

trá and tráth sound very alike.

Dúairt is a misspelling of Dúirt.

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Jonas
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Username: Jonas

Post Number: 484
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 04:22 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I fully agree with Aonghus. "Dúirt sí go fanfaidh sí trá" makes no sense. In some dialects, the pronunciation of trá and tráth is identical. In Munster there is no such word as "trá", we say "tráigh", pronounced with a slender "g" at the end.

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Poblachtach
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Username: Poblachtach

Post Number: 26
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 11:17 am:   Edit Post Print Post

So one interpretation of this could be ' she said she would stay a while' ?
the sentence that follows it may put it more in context

Is a shúile ag bheannú slán , which by my reckoning should be ' as her eyes were bidding farewell '

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 270
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Where are you getting this stuff, Poblachtach?

That last sentence seems to have been translated from english.

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Poblachtach
Member
Username: Poblachtach

Post Number: 28
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 11:51 am:   Edit Post Print Post

In a way it has been

I asked someone to translate a song I had written into Irish and he came up with some interpretated lyrics but I was doing a dictionary search and some of the words didnt quite make sense to me , which is why I asked on here

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 273
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 11:59 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Ah. How about giving us the song? Between us we ought to get something good. Translation is difficult, translating poetry very difficult.

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Poblachtach
Member
Username: Poblachtach

Post Number: 31
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 12:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I dont mind posting it but it is a bit long , The chap who helped me with it said that in Irish meter there is a certain mode to be followed on how the lines scan and that this was more important than rythme or exact translation .

What I would like is to post his translation here and see how you translate it back to english as that would allow me to see how faithful to the original it managed to be.

LEANNÁN NEAMHSPLEÁCH

Dúairt sí go fánaidh sí trá
Is a shúile ag bheannú slán
Ní fhéadfá an fírinne folú
Na macallaí istigh ina croí

Do mhionnaigh sí fán ar mo thaobh
Ach bí a croí ag tnútán slí eile
Go cheann scríbe i bhfad ó mo chroí
Is gan mise ar ghualainn linne

Curfá

Is leannán neamhspleácht mo chailín
Le croí saor istigh ina n-ucht
Gan cúram í féin ná a theaghlaigh
Ach leanúint an bhóthair gan scáth

Béidh bailtí is gamalaí eile
A chuirfidh an síbhean faoi dhraíocht
Go dtuigtear nach bhfuil ag an chailín
Ach croí crua agus gar dí féin

Curfá

Annsin béidh cuis aiféala orthu
Ar an lá a bhuaile siad léi
Nuair a thugann sí bealach an bhóthair
Gan tráct ar briseadh an chroí

(Message edited by Poblachtach on October 11, 2004)

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Fear_na_mbróg
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Username: Fear_na_mbróg

Post Number: 174
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 12:28 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

What language is that, above?

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Poblachtach
Member
Username: Poblachtach

Post Number: 33
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 12:29 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

criticism is fine .just make it contructive please

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Poblachtach
Member
Username: Poblachtach

Post Number: 34
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

The nuachtoire mistake is my fault because , I originally called the song

Freelance lover , and I made the mistake of exchanging the freelance translation with that of the freelance bit , i realise now it should have been neamhspleách , I pasted the uncorrected version ( I have edited out the nuachtoire bit now )

(Message edited by Poblachtach on October 11, 2004)

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Jonas
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Username: Jonas

Post Number: 487
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 04:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I agree with Poblachtach, criticism should be constructive. At the same time, I understand Fear na mBróg - it's easier to point out what's right than what's wrong in that translation. Unfortunately I'm rather busy at the moment so I don't have the time to go through it all right now.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 277
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 04:52 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Actually, I was suggesting that Poblachtach should post the original English Lyrics becuase my feeling is that the translation is too literal, and we would get snarled up in trying to fix something which can't be fixed.

The grammar and usage of the translation is quite flaky.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 278
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 05:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post

For example:
Is a shúile ag bheannú slán

Beannaigh means to bless, or to greet. You cannot greet farewell, it doesn't make sense.

Is a súile (she is feminine!) ag fágail slán agam.

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Poblachtach
Member
Username: Poblachtach

Post Number: 35
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 08:14 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Jonas if you do find the time to give me some pointers on this I would be grateful .

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Jonas
Member
Username: Jonas

Post Number: 497
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 04:39 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I could try, but as Aonghus said, it would be much easier if we could have the English original to see what the text is meant to say. It isn't always clear from that version above.

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Cait
Member
Username: Cait

Post Number: 41
Registered: 09-2004


Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I agree with Aonghus, the original English would be best, but also traslating from English to Gaelic with out being too literal is very hard especially for poetry unless you have a very good understanding of idioms. Unfortunately I only have a rudimentary understanding of idioms, but I do wish you luck with this. I'll be seeing how it goes and perhaps it will help me with my own translations.
Slán go fóill!
Cáit.



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