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Diarmuid (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 08:29 am: |
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I was just wondering if u guys new any simple songs in Gaeilge. Im just a begginer and need some for my class as my teacher says there a good way to learn phrasing and pronunciation. Go raibh maith agat |
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 73 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 08:56 am: |
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The national anthem: Amhrán na bhFiann Sinne Fianna Fáil atá faoi gheall ag Éirinn Buíon dár slua Thar [toinn] do ráinig chugainn Faoi mhóid bheith saor Seantír ár sinsir feasta Ní fhágfar faoin tíorán ná faoin tráill Anois a théim sa bhearna bhaoil Le gean ar Ghaeil chun báis nó saoil Le [gunna-screách] ó lámhach na bpiléar Seo libh [canaigí] Amhrán na bhFiann I'm not sure about the parts in square brackets: 1) Don't know why it isn't "thar thonnta" 2) "Gunna-scréach" is very Englishy 3) Not sure if that word is "Canaigí". When I hear it sung, it sounds like "Conig". Whatever you do, don't search the net looking for the National Anthem, unless you like grammatical erros and misspellings. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 106 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 10:38 am: |
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I'm not sure the National Anthem counts as simple. This is the chorus of a longer song written by Peadar Kearney Sinne Fianna Fáil A tá fé gheall ag Éirinn, buion dár slua Thar toinn do ráinig chugainn, Fé mhóid bheith saor. Sean tír ár sinsir feasta Ní fhagfar fé'n tiorán ná fé'n tráil Anocht a théam sa bhearna bhaoil, Le gean ar Ghaeil chun báis nó saoil Le gunna scréach, faoi lámhach na bpiléar Seo libh canaíg Amhrán na bhFiann. The attentive reader will see that the Munster dialect has crept in again. See also: http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/irish/index.asp?docID=825 However, I'd advise Diarmuid to get a CD of Childrens songs and learn from it. The text is usually given. Try: Bliain na nAmhrán ( http://www.futa-fata.com) or Trup, Trup a chapallín ( http://www.gael-linn.ie) |
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 74 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 01:11 pm: |
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...grammar grammar grammar What's "fé"? An alternative form of "faoi"? What's the craic with "thar toinn"? Is it: Seantír ár sinsear feasta or Seantír ár sinsir fheasta ? I think it's the first as I always hear that "f". Then again, you'll hear a lot of people mutilate the language. "a théam"? "a théim" I presume. "gunna scréach" = "a gun of screaming"? "canaíg", is that a Munster form of "Canaigí"? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 108 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 04:46 am: |
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Thar toinn is because tonn is singular, a poetic way of saying from across the sea. "Seantír ár sinsear" feasta because there is a pause between (Seantír ár sinsear) and (feasta) >>a théam"? "a théim" I presume You presume incorrectly. A théimid is meant. Gunna scréach is how the original "Cannon's roar" was translated. Remember, there was no standard grammar in 1907 when the song was written, and as far as I know translated. Nor in 1926 when the chorus was adpoted as the National Anthem. |
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 79 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 04:49 am: |
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Grammar is a fundamental part of a language, long before some-one tries to capture it and understand its every aspect and write a set of clear-cut rules! |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 110 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 04:51 am: |
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Yes. But standardisation is not. The dialects had/have different grammars. Also, there is a certain amount of poetic license in songs and poems since metre is more important there than grammar. |
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 80 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 04:54 am: |
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Overstand doth I. |
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Antóin (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 06:53 am: |
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"fé" is in common use, both spoken and written. Just because all constructions are not included in the caighdeán does not mean they are incorrect. The scholars who drafted the set of rules for the caighdeán never intended to have variations in the living language excluded when they were in common use. Poetry, drama and song lyrics in many languages frequently deviate from formal usage. It is more the norm than the exception. I believe there are forms of the Lord's Prayer in contemporary English but the version based on Elizabethan English is the one everyone prefers. |
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M. Ó Muircheartaigh (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 07:58 am: |
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A Dhiarmuid, The simplest songs are children's songs and one of the simplest of these is 'Baidín Fheilimí' (Feilimí's litle boat). Two others, easily downloadable from the memory banks once learned, are: 'Beidh Aonach Amárach' and 'Trasna na dTonnta'. The words of all tthree are given below. Is féidir leat an ceol a fháil ar téip nó dluthdiosca curtha amach ag RTE, 'Óró na Casadaigh - songs of our childhood', le Na Casadaigh. Bain taitneamh astu. Báidín Fheilimí Báidín Fheilimí ‘d’imigh go Gabhla Báidín Fheilimí ‘s Feilimí ann Báidín Fheilimí ‘d’imigh go Gabhla Báidín Fheilimí ‘s Feilimí ann Curfá (chorus) Báidín bídeach, báidín beosach Báidín bóidheach, Báidín Fheilimí Báidín díreach, báidín deontach Báidín Fheilimí ‘s Feilimí ann Báidín Fheilimí ‘d’imigh go Toraigh Báidín Fheilimí ‘s Feilimí ann Báidín Fheilimí ‘d’imigh go Toraigh Báidín Fheilimí ‘s Feilimí ann Curfá Báidín Fheilimí briseadh i dToraigh Iasc ar bhord agus Feilimí ann Báidín Fheilimí briseadh i dToraigh Iasc ar bhord agus Feilimí ann Beidh Aonach Amárach Beidh aonach amárach i gContae an Chláir Beidh aonach amárach i gContae an Chláir Beidh aonach amárach i gContae an Chláir Cén mhaith dom é? Ní bheidh mé ann Curfá: ‘S a mháithrín an ligfidh tú chun aonigh mé A mháithrín an ligfidh tú chun aonigh mé A mháithrín an ligfidh tú chun aonigh mé A mhuirnín ó, ná héiligh é Níl tú a deich ná a haon déag fós Níl tú a deich ná a haon déag fós Níl tú a deich ná a haon déag fós Nuair a bheidh tú trí déag beidh tú mor Curfá: ‘S a mháithrín an ligfidh tú chun aonigh mé A mháithrín an ligfidh tú chun aonigh mé A mháithrín an ligfidh tú chun aonigh mé A mhuirnín ó, ná héiligh é B’fhearr liom féin mo ghréasaí bróg B’fhearr liom féin mo ghréasaí bróg B’fhearr liom féin mo ghréasaí bróg Ná oifigeach airm faoi lásaí óir Curfá: ‘S a mháithrín an ligfidh tú chun aonigh mé, [srl.] Trasna na dTonnta Curfá: Trasna na dtonnta dul siar dul siar Slán leis an uaigneas is slán leis an gcian Geal é mo chroí agus geal í an ghrian Geal bheith ag filleadh go hÉireann Chonaic mé dhóthain de thíortha i gcéin Ór agus airgead, saibhreas a’ tsaoil Éiríonn an chroí ‘nam le breacadh an lae ‘S mé a’ druidim le dúthaigh mo mhuintir Curfá: Trasna na dtonnta dul siar dul siar Slán leis an uaigneas is slán leis an gcian Geal é mo chroí agus geal í an ghrian Geal bheith ag filleadh go hÉireann Muintir an Iarthar is iad cairde mo chroí Fáilte is féile beidh romham ar gach taobh Ar fhágaint an tsaoil seo is é a ghuím ar an Rí Gur leosan a shínfear i gcill mé Curfá: Trasna na dtonnta dul siar dul siar Slán leis an uaigneas is slán leis an gcian Geal é mo chroí agus geal í an ghrian Geal bheith ag filleadh go hÉireann |
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Chris Dixon (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 11:23 am: |
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Chris Dixon (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 06:46 am: |
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A chairde, I thought a few reflections might be interesting in view of Fear na mBróg and Aonghus's references to Amhrán na bhFiann. Firstly, once upon a time (circa 1911) there was a song in English by Peader Kearney, Breandan Behan’s uncle, called “A Soldier’s Song”. And it went something like this: We'll sing a song, a soldier's song With cheering, rousing chorus As round our blazing fires we throng, The starry heavens o'er us; Impatient for the coming fight, And as we await the morning's light Here in the silence of the night We'll chant a soldier's song. Soldiers are we, whose lives are pledged to Ireland Some have come from a land beyond the waves. Sworn to be free, no more our ancient sireland Shall shelter the despot or the slave; Tonight we man the bearna baoghal In Erin's cause, come woe or weal; 'Mid cannon's roar and rifle's peal We'll chant a soldier's song. In valley green or towering crag Our fathers fought before us, And conquered 'neath the same old flag That's proudly floating o'er us, We're children of a fighting race That never yet has known disgrace, And as we march the foe to face, We'll chant a soldier's song. Sons of the Gael! Men of the Pale! The long watched day is breaking; The serried ranks of Innisfail Shall set the tyrant quaking. Our camp fires now are burning low; See in the east a silv'ry glow, Out yonder waits the Saxon foe, So chant a soldier's song. (Okay so you have to supply your own music!) This became a popular marching song among the Volunteers over the next 10-15 troubled years. The earliest Gaeilge translation of the song, published in Irish Freedom in 1912 along with the original was: Seo dhíbh, a chairde, duan óglaigh, Cathréimeach, bríomar, ceolmhar, Ar dtinte cnámh go buacach táid, 's an spéir go min réaltógach. Is fonnmhar faobhrach sinn chun gleo, 'S go tiúnmhar glé roimh thíocht don ló, Faoi chiúas caomh na hoíche ar seol, Seo libh, canaig Amhrán na bhFiann. Sinne laochra Fáil, a tá faoi gheallag Éireann, Buion dár slua thar toinn do ráinig chugainn, Faoi mhóid bheith saor. Sean tír ár sinsear feasta, Ní fhágfar faoin tíorán ná faoin thráill. Anocht a théam sa bhear na baoil, Le gean ar Ghaeil chun báis nó saoil, Le guna scréach, faoi lámhach na bpiléar, Seo libh canáig amhrán na bhFiann. Cois bánta reidhe, ar arda sléibhe Ba bhuach ár sinsear romhainn, Ag lámhach go tréan fa'n sár-bhrat sein, Atá thuas sa ghaoith go seolta: Ba dhúchas riamh d'ar gcine cháidh Gan iompáil siar ó imirt air, 'Siul libh canaig Amhrán na bhFiann. A Bhuíon nach fann d'fhuil Gaeil is Gall, Sinn breachadh lae na saoirse, Tá scéimhle 's scanradh i gcroíthr namhad, Roimh ranganna laochra ár dtíre; Ar dtínte is tréith gan spréach anois, Sin luisne ghlé san spéir anoir, 'S an bíobha i raon na bpiléar agaibh: Seo libh, canaig Amhrán na bhFiann. Then, as another song goes “after truce and treaty and the parting of the ways”, the 26 counties adopted as their national anthem, under the name of Amhrán na bhFiann, the chorus from another translation of the same song: Sinnne Fianna Fáil atá fé gheall ag Éirinn, Buion dár slua thar toinn do ráinig chugainn Fémhóid bheith saor. Seantír ár sinsir feasta Ní fhagfar fé'n tiorán ná fé'n tráil. Anocht a théam sa bhearna bhaoil, Le gean ar Ghaeil chun báis nó saoil Le guna screach fé lámhach na bpiléar, Seo libh, canaídh Amhrán na bhFiann. I hope outling this brief history of the song clarifies why I Fear na mBróg is quite right to see Anglicisms in some of the phrases he refers to. That sort of thing is not uncommon in translation from English to Irish - even in good translation. I hope it also clarifies why Aonghus quite rightly points out that we will see the Munster influence in the "standard" translation of the chorus. Many speakers from elsewhere in the island suggest that the Munster dialect has overly influencded the caighdeán oifigiúil as a whole... but of course that is another matter! Apologies for any typos that may have crept into the Gaeilge lyrics that I give. My Irish is not as good as I'd like it to be! Slán beo! Chris |
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 89 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 08:21 am: |
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Jesus I hate reading crappy Gaeilge. I don't so much mind reading crappy English, where people write "it's" as "its", and use apostraphes in the plurals "apple's"... it doesn't particulary bothered me because I'm "confident" with my English and no amount of reading crappy English will get me questioning my own grammar and spelling. I've never been fully immersed in Irish, I've only ever learned it in classrooms in school, but still I've no problems sticking séimhithe where they should be, urúithe where they should be, fadas where they should be. But then you see people who are actually fluent in Irish and you see them making the stupid silly mistakes that a beginner like me has down to a T. For instance, in the post that preceeds this one, I was wondering what that word is in: Seo libh, X Amhrán na bhFiann so I looked through the song. 1st occurrence: canaig 2nd occurrence: canáig 3rd occurrence: canaig 4th occurrence: canaídh Would I be write in saying that just like in English, where you have poorly literate people who write the likes of "He's taking the apple's", you also have the likes of that in Gaeilge? That would be understandable. But then mistakes in the spoken language, what the hell is the story with that?! For instance, that sign I mentioned a while ago which read: Galfchúrsa Chaisleán an Ghráisneach Do people in the Gaeltachtaí actually speak like that?! I hope not, because I'm not even fluent enough to follow the news, but I've got all these details down. The Irish language is getting butchered on signs throughout Ireland. It looks like people just whip out a dictionary and look-up: Grange Castle Golf Course Gráinseach Caisléan Galf Cúrsa And then think to themselves, "Irish is backwards to English, isn't it?", and then come out with bullshit the likes of: Galfchúrsa Chailseán an Ghráineach I searched the net looking for stories written in Irish there yesterday and I found one site that had a few stories on it. I opened one of the pages and was faced with no less than a butchery of the Irish language. I looked up an encyclopedia today for "Gaeltacht" and it turns out that we have "Gaelscolana" in Ireland. What the hell are they?! AAAAAAaaaaaaaaaahhhhh |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 124 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 09:02 am: |
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FnaB - Ná bac na mionnaí móra, agus tóg an saol níos réidhe. Agus tabhair faoi ndeara go raibh leaganacha éagsúla de Amhrán na bhFiann i gceist leis an méid thuas, agus sa bharr ar sin, roinnt mionbhotún cló. An bhfuil tú ag rá nach dtarlaíonn a leithéidí duitse riamh? Maidir liom fhéin, tá caint flúirseach agam; ach is beag taithí atá agam bheith ag scríobh. Mar sin, bíonn botúin sa mhéid a scríobhann mé. Maidir le "Grange" is focal Normánnach é; Gráinseach an leagan gaeilge, agus tá an cheart agat mar gheall ar an tuiseal Ginideach cruinn. |
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Chris Dixon (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 09:55 am: |
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A chairde, Spelling and spelling conventions... in the same line as my previous post, we should keep in mind that Irish spelling has evolved, and indeed been officially revised, since the early years of the last century. Looking back at my source text for the 1912 edition of Amhrán na bhFiann (an old text without the clearest of typefaces), it's not clear if there is a fada on the "i" of "canaig" in occurrences 1, 2 and 4. There is clearly a fada on the "a" of "canáig" in occurrence 3. A shift which could easily be explained as a type-setting error if "canaig" should be "canaíg" - but I hadn't enough confidence in my Irish to put (sic) after any or all of these variants. I also had my doubts about "'Siul libh" at the end of verse 3 of the 1912 translation, but had insufficient confidence in my Irish to put (sic) there either. The spelling "canaídh", which is from a 1926 text, given at the time as the official version adopted as the anthem, is exactly as it appears in the source. Le meas, Chris |
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Fear_na_mbróg
Member Username: Fear_na_mbróg
Post Number: 93 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 09:56 am: |
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Go fóill, cuireann sé isteach orm. An teanga nach féidir liom í a labhairt le daoine i m'áit chonaithe, tá sí á mhilleadh ar fud na háite, ar fhógraí, sa pháipéar nuachta, gach áit! |
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