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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (October-December) » Fáilte romhaibh go léir ar ais chun na Gaeilge a chairde. « Previous Next »

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (193.1.100.104 - 193.1.100.104)
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 09:13 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Cabhraímis lena chéile le teacht ar fhocail agus ar fhothuiscintí na Gaeilge. Cuideoidh an fhoghlaim le gach éinne an saol ina mairid siad a thuiscint níos fearr.
Studying language/Irish shall help all in their own lives.

Is tráthúil an seanfhocal, a fheileann do gach éinne nuair a bhíonn an saol cineál trí chéile, a roinnt libh anseo:

'Caith do phíopa is bí i do thost ------ (Smoke your pipe and say nothing
óir níl sa saol ach gaoth is toit'. -------- as life is nought but wind and smoke)

Le meas oraibh go léir,

Seosamh

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Larry (217.42.55.104 - 217.42.55.104)
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 10:37 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat as an chuimhneachán tráthúil sin, a Sheosaimh.

Larry.

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Mare (195.95.47.203 - 195.95.47.203)
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 05:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Larry, a chara,

Shouldn't that be "as an cuimhneachán"? my dictionary says it's a male noun ...

Lé meas,
Mare(h)

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Larry (217.42.48.163 - 217.42.48.163)
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 05:12 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

oops - Rinne mé dearmad. Tá brón orm faoi sin.

Thanks for pointing that out mo chara :)

L

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Jonas (213.243.190.23 - 213.243.190.23)
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 05:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Mare, a chara.

No, it shouldn't. It has nothing to do with gender but all to do with "AS an .....". I guess you know that following a preposition (as) and the article (an) the noun is usually eclipsed. That would give us
"as an gcuimhneachán".
That is what most Irish speakers would say. The Ulster dialect, or in fact just some of the Ulster dialcts, employs lenition instead, giving
"as an chuimhneachán".

Both version are correct though most people would prefer the first one. "as an cuimhneachán" is always wrong, though.

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Larry (217.42.48.163 - 217.42.48.163)
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 05:21 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I've done it again, haven't I?

This whole issue of the definate article following certain prepositions is, as I've said many times before, sometimes confusing. And it's not helped when I get it wrong.

Jonas is right, "as" is one of the prepositions with affect a noun when it's used in conjunction with the definate article. Knowing which prepositions cause this is my main problem. I thought it was correct the first time I said it :)

Sorry about that, Mare.

Le meas,

Larry.

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Mare (195.95.47.203 - 195.95.47.203)
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 05:33 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Hey, I learned something, so ... :-)

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (193.1.100.104 - 193.1.100.104)
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 06:35 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Just to help in the matter of Urú/eclipse, continuing what Bradford posted previously:

cloch -> ar an gcloch
pota -> faoin bpota
gasúr -> leis an ngasúr mór
bád -> ar an mbád
fuinneoig -> ar an bhfuinneoig mhór
fear -> leis an bhfear

There are some others:
um an ....,
tríd an ....,
ag an ....,
ón ....., (ó + an)

The letters to watch are:
b > mb;
c > gc;
(d > nd Munster);
f > bhf;
g > ng;
p > bp;
(t > dt Munster).

The three following
sa (ins + an)
den (de + an_
don (do + an)
generally lenite/séimhiú, but not in all dialects, where they sometimes eclipse (differently in different areas).

There may be others as I'm just moving fast at the moment, gabh mo leithscéal.

Ádh mór.

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Larry (217.42.54.25 - 217.42.54.25)
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 01:00 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I've just found this in the notes I made some years ago :

"The definate article causes lenition to a singular noun of either gender beginning with the consonant b, s, f, g, m or p when it is preceded by the preposition ag, ar, as, chuig, dar, faoi, ionsar, le, ó, roimh, thar, trí or um. The definate article may, however, eclipse a noun beginning with b, c, f, g or p"

Le meas,

Larry.

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (193.1.100.104 - 193.1.100.104)
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 01:34 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agat a Larry. Beidh sé sin ina chuidiú mhór ag daoine.

The two general systems, of eclipse (most common), or lenition (in Donegal), when one meets preposition + singular article (an), are well covered in Larry's post.

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Antóin (159.134.181.226 - 159.134.181.226)
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 07:41 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Sheosaimh,

fuinneoig -> ar an bhfuinneoig mhór ?

ar an bhfuinneog mhór ?

I though the dative was the same as the nominative nowadays except for a few exceptions.

Ach b'bfhéidir go bhfuil dul amú orm.

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Seosamh Mac Muirí (193.1.100.104 - 193.1.100.104)
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 09:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Sea a Antóin, níl aon dul amú ort.

Exceptions like 'láimh', 'bois', 'cois', 'cluais', and 'bróg' were let go, quietly, some seven, or so, years ago. However, one can keep them if they so wish, in noun, and adjective '... ar an bhfuinneoig mhóir thall'. I like them myself and of course the t. t./ Tuiseal Tabhartach is still rampant in petrified forms such as someone else has mentioned somewhere
ar fud, le cois, os cionn, faoi réir and such.

For official and proper correspondence, I would constrain any indulgence.
Ní mise a rachfas i mbun feachtais lena thabhairt ar ais arís, d'ainneoin mo luí leis scaití.
(I'll not be the one to start a campaign for it's resurrection.)

Ádh mór.

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