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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (July-September) » Mo chairde nua « Previous Next »

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Dawn (66.19.56.95 - 66.19.56.95)
Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 11:09 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia dhíbh! Tá áthas orm bualadh libh. Dawn is ainm dom agus tá mé i mo chónaí i Chicago. Táim ag foghlaim Gaeilge le bliain anuas (anois is arís).
I have been studying Irish on my own with Ó Sé and Sheils' Teach Yourself book and tapes as my ONLY study materials. I have been searching for a site like this for months, and I am in the process now of reading through all of the posts on this board (putting my new Foclóir Scoile to good use - it has been a tremedous help!) I have already learned so much!
"Go raibh maith agaibh" to all of the FANTASTIC teachers here for the patience and dedication you put into giving such thorough and detailed answers to even the simplest of questions. Your knowledge is truly astounding!It's easy to find people who say they have an interest in language, but finding those who are truly passionate about it is another story entirely!
I have enjoyed getting to "know" you all and look forward to corresponding regularly (as I need lots of help!)
I've gathered a whole list of questions, but I'll start with just this one:
When I have spent some time listening to Raidió na Gaeltachta, I hear many English words slipping in and out the conversations there. Words like yeah, no, you know, oh ok, but, well, and right are being used freely between phrases and sentences. Am I just hearing things or is this accepted as normal practice, just a part of casual conversation?
I would appreciate any responses. Thanks again for everything!
Le meas,
Dawn

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Maidhc Ó G. (65.128.208.66 - 65.128.208.66)
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 07:30 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Is Gaeilge go bhriste i níos fearr le Béarla maith de lá ar bith í!
Unfortunately, these "fillers" from modern English do occasionally seep into the conversation. You might notice that numbers and dates tend to slip in this matter also.
When trying to practice my own Gaeilge, I'll end up using a "Gaeilgish" of my own. I, too, have much work to do.
So, cén cheist next bhfuil agat? (Níl mé go cinnte faoin grammar leis sin - nó seo!) HAHAHA!! :)
Slán go foill,
-Maidhc.

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Dawn (66.19.56.175 - 66.19.56.175)
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 10:56 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Mhaidhc, a chara,
Thank you so much for your response! I will have to come back later with my next question, when I've had time to think it through. In the mean time, could you help me with your first sentence? I know all of the words, but they're not fitting together for me. A common problem for us beginners! Thanks!
Le meas,
Dawn

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Maidhc Ó G. (65.128.204.170 - 65.128.204.170)
Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 11:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Dawn, a chara,

Broken Irish is better than good English any day!

-Maidhc.

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Aodh (212.44.42.82 - 212.44.42.82)
Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Nó chun é a rá ar bhealach eile: Is fearr Gaeilge briste ná Béarla chliste i mbéal Ghaeil

Or to put it another way: Broken Irish is better than clever English in the mouth of an Irishman

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Dawn (66.19.56.42 - 66.19.56.42)
Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 11:37 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Maidhc, a chara,
Thanks! It's so clear to me now...isn't it amazing how much easier it is to understand something once you.....understand it? In any language it's those little words that are the real killers!
Ok, my next question is regarding the pronunciation of l and r. My book says, "Slender r is a combination of r with the sound of s in leisure." I'm really not sure what that means! Do they mean the r which the Irish use when they speak English,the same as the English r but harder? Then they don't even explain what a broad r is. I read somewhere that it is rolled. I have listened long and hard to my tapes but can't distinguish between the two. Can you help clarify this for me?
Also, the initial slender l.It sounds like ly to me. For instance, líne sounds like LYEE-nuh and leá sounds like LYAH. Is this correct (or close enough?)
It's difficult to learn one dialect through another. When someone says,"It sounds like an r," how can you know what they mean?
Well, I really do appreciate your help Maidhc.
And Aodh, I love the rythtm! Thanks!
Le meas,
Dawn

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Dawn (66.19.56.42 - 66.19.56.42)
Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 12:07 am:   Edit Post Print Post

P.S. After the meaning of this phrase really sank in, I just wanted to say that I think English in the mouth of an Irishman is beautiful!
-Dawn

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Seosamh (64.83.223.38 - 64.83.223.38)
Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 09:42 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia's Muire duit, Dawn!
Well, as in Irish you have to respond to yes or no questions with the verb in the appropriate tense, and there are no actual words for yes and no, I think that is part of the reason you will hear people say "yeah" or whatever. Also, OK is one of those words that seems to seep into EVERY language.
Also, I've noticed that a lot of people in the Gaeltacht speak English as well.
As far as the Irish 'r' goes, it's sort of like a short r with a little whistle...it's pretty hard to do. Although mo mhúinteoir has said that you hear more and more often Irish-speakers using an English r, so it's perfectly alright.
-Seosamh

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Dawn (66.19.56.126 - 66.19.56.126)
Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 11:18 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Sheosamh, thanks for the reply. Is it not crucial then to make a distinction between the broad and slender r? Also I still need help with the slender l at the beginning of a word or syllable.
You're right about the word "ok". I know it's used by Germans as well. It's interesting to see how languages influence each other.
I'm going to have another look at the old posts again before "Out of Ireland" comes on tonight. I wonder if any of my fellow Americans here watch this program also?
Slán for now,
Dawn

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Maidhc Ó G. (65.128.204.207 - 65.128.204.207)
Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 10:48 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia dhuit, Dawn,
Sorry for taking so long to reply.-Was on vacation for a bit, but I'm back now.
Anyway, about 'slender' vs. 'broad' R.
Your 'leisure' example is fairly good, but try this as an exercise. Say the name Zsa Zsa Gabor with your best Irish accent. Notice how your tongue reaches for the middle of the roof of your mouth at the end. That's broad. Now say,"More Zsa Zsa Gabor". - Slow down. Listen to the transition between 'more' and 'Zsa'. Now, say "More Zsa" - But don't let go of the "R" straight through the 'Zs' part. Yor tongue goes towards the back of your upper front teeth, at the ridge of the roof of your mouth.
Now, try saying the name "Máire" - phon. (MAW"RZS-UH). You may, as Seosamh said,"get a little whistle". Some do, others not. It still may not quite be pefect, but it'll give you an idea.
As for "L", think of the tongue in the roof of your mouth and at the front ridge behind your front teeth again with this letter and it's pretty much the same exrcise. Only with "L".
Go n-éire an t-ádh leat!
-Maidhc.

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Dawn (66.19.56.125 - 66.19.56.125)
Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 12:12 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks so much Maidhc. I think I MIGHT be getting closer to understanding these sounds. As I said above, I have heard that slender R is like an English R (or Irish-English R) and broad R is rolled. However, it has seemed to me that the opposite is more true - that slender R makes a very light contact with the upper ridge and broad R is just hard (in sound).
As for the L, I say it sounds like LY because just moving my tongue back changes only the vowel sound following the L and not really the consonant itself. I don't know. Maybe my ears just aren't accustomed to hearing the variation. But leá really does sound like LYAH to me!
I hope I'm not spending too much time on this subject, but it's going to bother me until I get it right. I really appreciate your help!
Go raibh mile maith agat,
Dawn

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Maidhc Ó G. (65.128.204.80 - 65.128.204.80)
Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 11:24 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Dawn,
Your not hearing things. The way the air moves through your mouth after the tongue coming off the ridge creates that "y" trill. Think of your mouth as a musical instrument and listen to the masters play.
Slán go foill,
Maidhc.

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Dawn (66.19.56.62 - 66.19.56.62)
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 12:53 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Mhaidhc (hope that's right),
Ok, I think it's time I move on from here. Thanks again for everything!
See you on another thread :),
Dawn

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