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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (July-September) » Adjective anarchy! « Previous Next »

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Miriam Loraditch (63.201.92.169 - 63.201.92.169)
Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 05:44 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Chairde,
I am trying to make good sense of the rules of agreement between adjectives and nouns. If some kind and wise person out there has these down pat, I would so appreciate some help.
So, first you have the definite article causing aspiration to the feminine noun as in:
an bhó
now, if you add the adjective 'bán', you get
an bho bhan
HOWEVER! If you don't have the definite article in the first place, i.e. (just bo..a cow), does the adjective still get seimhiu because cow is feminine? i.e. bo bhan?
This has been driving me nuts! I cannot find a single example of this in all my books. An feidir libh cuidiu liom?
Many thanks!
Mim

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Antóin (159.134.180.187 - 159.134.180.187)
Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 08:18 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

An adjective must agree with the noun it qualifies in gender, number and case.

1. masculine noun, nominative singular.
fear cliste, léachtóir maith, leabhar buí, ardán mór.

2 feminine noun nominative singular
bean cHliste, léachtlann mHór, iris bHeag, bróg cHlé.

3. Plural nouns.
daoine deasA, teagascóirí maithE, pinn gHormA, fillteáin bHeagA.

4. Nouns, genitive case.
hata an fHir mHóIr, cáilíochtaí na mná cliste.

A singular feminine noun in the nominative is always followed by an adjective with séimhiú, irrespective of the article, so - an bhó bHán, or - bó bHán.

A singular masculine noun in the nominitive is followed by an adjective with no séimhiú.

In the plural, a séimhiú is placed on an adjective which follows a noun ending in a narrow consonant.

Oh dear! I'm getting confused myself at this stage, I've just realized I've started a whole chapter. And the dreaded tuiseal ginideach(genitive) hasn't even been mentioned.

For examples of adjectives in all the different forms, go to
http://www.csis.ul.ie/focloir/
put the adjective in the box and enter.

Other on-line examples are available at -
http://www.ling.uni-potsdam.de/~green/aidiacht.htm
the instruction is in German but you should be able to make out the examples in Irish.

Another good grammer resource is -
http://mbm.8m.com/irish/

Slán anois

Antóin

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Miriam Loraditch (68.120.138.44 - 68.120.138.44)
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 10:57 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Antoin,
Go raibh mile maith agat!
I really appreciate your help.
I am printing this out to stare at until I get it into my head.
Slan agus beannacht!
Mim

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James (199.112.55.62 - 199.112.55.62)
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 12:49 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Are you sure about "an bho bhan"? I think I read somewhere that the adjective doesn't require lenition. Or, perhaps that's not the case here.

An causes lenition of bo because bo is feminine

Bho causes lenition of ban (and shouldn't the a have a fada?) because it is the adjective to the feminine bo.

I pretty sure that I read somewhere that the adjective doesn't require it---I'll go research it and get back.

Now I'm even more confused!

Le meas,

James

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Maidhc Ó G. (65.128.208.160 - 65.128.208.160)
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 07:10 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

James,
An raibh tú amach faoin ghrian ar feadh ró-fhada, a chara? Bhí tú go cead an chéad-am. I'm usually the one who's this confused. :)
Slán go foill, le meas,
-Maidhc.

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James (199.112.55.62 - 199.112.55.62)
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 03:06 am:   Edit Post Print Post

OK--things make more sense now.

Yes, the adjective must be lenited.

What I read was pertaining to the vocative plural. In that instance, the adjective is never lenited.

Vocative Singular: Adjective Always Lenited

A bhean mhór!

Vocative Plural: Adjective NEVER Lenited

A mhrá mór!

Seems the definite article is a beast in and of itself!

A Mhaidhc, In this place you don't have to be out in the sun long at all!! Yesterday it hit 130 F!!


Ard mheas
James

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Paul (66.152.218.225 - 66.152.218.225)
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 09:35 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Shéamuis,
a chara,
Cá bhfuil tusa go díreach?
Nó an rún é?
Slán a bhéas tú.
Paul

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Antóin (159.134.181.37 - 159.134.181.37)
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 02:53 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Mhrá mór - mícheart
A mhná móra

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