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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2003 (April-June) » Can ye help « Previous Next »

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sam (195.93.34.13 - 195.93.34.13)
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 09:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

a chairde,
Hi folks, I don't contribute that often but keep up with all the craic on this site and enjoy the passion for Gaeilge I find here. Wow, at times its been like Billy Conn v Joe Louis..(that's a boxing reference girls)hee hee
Anyway the question...
Could you please translate - 'no ones angel'

go raibh míle maith agat
Sam

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Phil (159.134.209.133 - 159.134.209.133)
Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 06:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post

"no ones angel"

What?

Is that supposed to be "no-one's angel", as in "nobody's angel".

If so, "He's no-one's angel" would be:

Ní haingeal éinne é

-

And "no-one's an angel" = "no-one is an angel"

Ní haingeal é éinne.


-Phil

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Maidhc Ó G. (65.128.200.23 - 65.128.200.23)
Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 09:09 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Phil, a chara,
What's that word "éinne"? I looked in 'An Fhocal Beag' and it wasn't in there. Anyhow, my best try at "nobody's angel" would be - Níl aingeal chuig duine ar bith (é,í,mise,tusa,...etc.).
Slán,
Maidhc.

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Sam (195.93.34.13 - 195.93.34.13)
Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Print Post

A Phil agus a Mhaidhc,
This translation will help settle a dispute on another site between two students I respect greatly. It's all healthy debate though and is crucial to the evolution of a language.
Go raibh míle maith agaibh
Slán go foill
Sam

a Phil, (') here's that apostrophe I missed earlier as a result of a cut and paste job.

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Phil (159.134.209.7 - 159.134.209.7)
Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 11:57 am:   Edit Post Print Post

One Question

"no-one's angel"

Is that "no-one is an angel"

or does the apostraphe imply ownership?

Well, I don't know the Gaeilge word for "no-one/nobody", but I do know the word for "anybody", which is "éinne", a contraction of "aon dhuine".

Full sentences are apreciated!

-Phil

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Canuck (66.185.84.81 - 66.185.84.81)
Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 10:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Phil,

Are you sure there is a séimhiú on duine?
I thought éinne = "aon duine", not "aon dhuine".

-Canuck

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Phil (159.134.209.72 - 159.134.209.72)
Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2003 - 06:26 am:   Edit Post Print Post

See I'm not sure. I know the following for definite:

1-6 = 'h'

7-10 = urú

aon pheann
dhá pheann
trí pheann
ceithre pheann
cúig pheann
sé pheann
seacht bpeann
ocht bpeann
naoi bpeann
deich bpeann


so "one pen" is "aon pheann", but I've got a feeling that "any pen" might be "aon peann", without the 'h'.

For instance:

Beidh sé briste mar brisfidh sé é.

Tugtar dúinn é mar chosaint.

"mar" doesn't take a 'h' when is means "because", but does when it means "as".

-Phil

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Aonghus (193.120.237.66 - 193.120.237.66)
Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 06:21 am:   Edit Post Print Post

éinne is a variation on
aoinne [ainmfhocal firinscneach den cheathrú díochlaonadh]
aon duine.

aon is being used in the sense of any, not the number one, so no seimhiú

My take, using a northern slant on no one's angel
would be
Aingeal ar bith
- which strictly speaking means not an angel. But getting possession in there will make the whole thing cumbersome.

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Maidhc Ó G. (65.128.204.140 - 65.128.204.140)
Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 01:07 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

A Aonguis, a chara,
Wouldn't that give a duel meaning of both 'an angel of any/everybody' or 'an angel of not any/nobody?
To make a clear distinction, shouldn't the negative be applied? - Níl aingeal ar bith.
I do like the humor within the duel usage though.
-Maidhc.

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Maidhc Ó G. (65.128.204.140 - 65.128.204.140)
Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 01:24 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

On another look, I believe, that would make Phil's first answer also correct. Ní haingeal éinne. - Not an angel of anyone. The difference between 'éinne' and 'ar bith' being usage of a finer point or a broad stroke.
Ní haingeal éinne é. - He's not an angel of (even) one(person).
(Níl) aingeal ar bith seisean.(?) - He's (not) an angel of every/anybody (every/anywhere).
-Maidhc.

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Aonghus (159.134.59.132 - 159.134.59.132)
Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 03:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Ní aingeal ar bith é - he is no angel
Ní aingeal aoinne é (aoinne == éinne) - he is not anybody's angel

In the North, "Aingeal ar bith" is the same as
"Ní aingeal ar bith é"

I get the vague feeling that Sam wants this for a T shirt, tatoo etc., which was why I wanted to come up with something short!

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Maidhc Ó G. (65.128.204.140 - 65.128.204.140)
Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I got the same impression as to his intentions and that is why I like the duel usage that I mentioned. It cuts both ways, or at least that's how I take 'Aingeal ar bith.' "Everybody's angel - wink wink, nudge nudge - say no more, say no more!" - Nobody's angel! He could use it however he wants and its correct either way. I was arguing over exacting specifics though I understand that they don't necessarily need apply.

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sam (172.185.17.129 - 172.185.17.129)
Posted on Monday, May 12, 2003 - 11:14 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Glad to see the debate continue..
The last few posts have answered the question;
one of the friends I referred to gave 'Aingeal ar bith' as the translation and the other one argued that the phrase would need to be in the negative. (nod nod - wink wink)

go raibh maith agaibh aris
Sam

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Aonghus (193.120.237.66 - 193.120.237.66)
Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 09:58 am:   Edit Post Print Post

fáilte romhat
but be aware that Aingeal ar bith is a specifically Northern usage, which may confuse those who don't read Lá every day!

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Maidhc. (65.128.208.77 - 65.128.208.77)
Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Fáilte romhat, a chara.
I wonder what other double entendres I'll be running into. That was quite fun.
It's been a while since I've read 'Lá'. I think I'll have to take a peek today. :)

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Aonghus (193.120.237.66 - 193.120.237.66)
Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Tosach feasa fiafraí

www.nuacht.com
Great article in todays print version by Ian Malcolm about the Gaeltacht as the source of idiomatic correctness.

http://www.nuacht.com/story/?newsid=5921&cat_id=3

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Jen (213.122.128.105 - 213.122.128.105)
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:27 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

So what would "I am no-ones Angel" be please:)

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Phil (159.134.209.246 - 159.134.209.246)
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:41 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Ní h-aingeal éinne mé

Ní h-aingeal aon duine ná mé

-

If you want to emphasize the "I", as in

IIIIIII am no-one's angel, then use this:

Ní mise aingeal éinne

Ní mise aingeal aon duine

-Phil

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Jen (213.122.128.105 - 213.122.128.105)
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:50 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks Phil :)

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Phil (159.134.209.246 - 159.134.209.246)
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm not doing anything at the moment so I'll explain that for you if you want:

duine = person

aon duine = any person

angel = aingeal


-

"aingeal aon duine" = "anybody's angel"

-

"aon duine" is abbreviated alot to "éinne", which is shorter and sounds alot nicer.

So:

Is aingeal éinne mé = I'm anybody's angel

Ní h-aingeal éinne mé = I'm not anybody's angel = I'm nobody's angel

There's a "h-" before aingeal because you've got two vowels coming together there.

-Phil

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Pádraig Ó Tuathchair (67.75.7.139 - 67.75.7.139)
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 04:43 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia Dhuit,

Im confused (Im fairly new at this) and its a little off the topic but

Phil mentioned If you want emphasis on I, you say Mise

example: Is Mise Pádraig - MY name is Patrick (IM Patrick)
as opposed to, Pádraig is ainm dom - my name is Patrick

Almost like somebody confused your name with another and you replay saying 'No, MY name is Patrick'

Am I completely wrong? ....be gentle :)
go raibh maith agaibh
Pádraig

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Phil (159.134.209.32 - 159.134.209.32)
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

That's the way I was thinking when I started with the emphasized words. They're pretty confusing at first. We have them in English too but they're not official. For example, for "I saw him", I say "I saw um". To emphasize it, I say "I say him".

Maybe this will help:


A fella comes up to you and says "Hello, did you see the man?", You reply "I saw the man".

Dia Dhuit, an bhfaca tú an fear?

Chonaic mé an fear

-

Scenario Two

You're in a room with 20 other people. A fella comes in:

Did anyone here see the man?

You reply,

I saw the man


An bhfaca éinne anseo an fear?

Chonaic mise an fear

-

What you're doing when you use an emphasized word, for example "mise tusa seisean sise", is you're setting the "current person".

-

And for your scenario, here's how I would do it:

Mary saw the dog.

No she didn't, IIII saw the dog


Chonaic Mary an madra.

Ní fhaca, is é mise a chonaic an madra.


I would turn "is é" into "'sé", which is pronounced exactly the same as "sé", as in "dhún sé an doras"


Ní fhaca, 'sé mise a chonaic an madra


-Phil

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Jen (213.122.49.76 - 213.122.49.76)
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:55 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

How about: Angels watch over me.

Please. Thanks :)

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Pádraig Ó Tuathchair (216.20.28.2 - 216.20.28.2)
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 08:16 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Dia Dhuit,

go raibh míle maith agat a phil,

you really cleared things up for me, I need to start writing this stuff down and using it for further reference.

slán agus beannnacht,
Pádraig

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Phil (159.134.209.110 - 159.134.209.110)
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Tá fáilte romhat, a Phádraig.


"Angels watch over me"

Faireann aingil tharam


-Phil

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Jen (213.122.48.238 - 213.122.48.238)
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 12:28 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks loads again Phil:)

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