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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 1999-2004 » 2002 (January-June) » Sitting Juniour Cert on Wed. A few questions « Previous Next »

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Pól (p925.as1.exs.dublin.eircom.net - 159.134.227.157)
Posted on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Ceist a haon
-------------

What is the negative of "dá"?

eg. dá mbuafainn an crannchur, cheannófainn teach.
If I won the lotto, I'd buy a house.

I want to know how to say "If I wouldn't win the lotto...." and whether it takes a "h" or "úrú", please.

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Ceist a dó
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eg. Is é an fear a chonaic mé

Does this mean "He is the man who saw me" or "He is the man whom I saw". Please explain the difference to me. By the way, I've seen written "Is é an fear go bhfaca mé".

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Ceist a trí
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The word/letter "á".

eg. Tá an t-ózón á mhilleadh (The ozone is BEING destroyed)

eg. Bhí mé á bhualadh (I was HITTING HIM)

I don't fully understand how this works. Firstly, I've been told that you can't say "Bhí mé ag bualadh Seán", and that you've to say "Bhí mé á bhualadh" instead, but is there any way to include the name? And am I right in thinking "á" means "being" in my first sample sentence, and if so, could someone please explain whether you put a "h" on the animbrithra after it.

--------

Thanks for your time

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Pól (p156.as1.exs.dublin.eircom.net - 159.134.224.156)
Posted on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 01:19 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

BTW, I realise I should've written "cheannóinn". I haven't used 1st person M.CH. in a while.

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Al Evans (tbtm.org - 208.188.101.145)
Posted on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 08:02 am:   Edit Post Print Post

I'm only taking a stab at these because nobody else has answered them. Which is to say, I don't think I'm up to passing ANY kind of test in the language, but I think I know the answers to these questions.

Ceist a haon: The negative of dá in this usage is mura (mara, muna, whatever:-). Mura mbuafainn..., If I didn't...

Ceist a dó: I'm pretty sure this means "He is the man whom I saw." I think "He is the man who saw me" would be "Is é an fear me a chonaic." I believe it's true that in relative clauses, the object precedes the verb.

Ceist a trí: At least according to Ó Siadhail, you've got to say "Bhí mé dhá bualadh." You can only use "á" if the meaning is reflexive, as in your first example. The literal English translation would be something like "I was to his hitting", or approximately, "I was up to hitting him." As far as I know, though, there's nothing wrong with "Bhí me ag bualadh Seán" for "I was hitting Sean."

Now maybe somebody who actually knows something will come along and correct both of us! :-)

Al Evans

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Seosamh Mac Bhloscaidh (dialup-64.158.191.156.dial1.newyork1.level3.net - 64.158.191.156)
Posted on Monday, June 03, 2002 - 08:42 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Is é an fear a chonaic mé

It could be understood either way:

He's the man whom I saw.
He's the man who saw me.

Only context would tell you which is meant. The first meaning could be rephrased as Is é an fear a bhfaca mise é.

Dhá (Cois Fhairrge Irish, as Al learned from Learning Irish) = á (Standard Irish)

Tá sé dhá mhilleadh. It is destroying it. or It is being destroyed.
Tá sé á mhilleadh. ditto

Both literally mean "it is to it's destroying", just as Al explained.

"Bhí me ag bualadh Seán" should really be "Bhí me ag bualadh Sheáin".

xxxx

Tá an t-ózón á mhilleadh.

The ozone is being destroyed "to its [own] destroying"
The ozone is destroying it.

It depends on context -- probably the first one is meant.

Notice that ózón is a masculine noun. If it was, say, the park (feminine) that is being destroyed, you would say:

Tá an pháirc á milleadh "to her/its destroying"

Tá na seantithe á milleadh / the old houses are being destroyed -- they are to their destroying

In the latter case you would eclipse if possible:

Bhí Bríd á gcur ar an mbord. Bridget was putting them on the table.

Learn the whole paradigm:

Bhí an garda do mo cheistiú. The guard was questioning me.

Bhí an garda do do cheistiú. The guard was questioning you (singlular).

Bhí an garda á cheistiú. The guard was questioning him. (to his questioning)

Bhí an garda á ceistiú. The guard was questioning her.

Bhí an garda dár gceistiú. The guard was questioning us.

Bhí an garda do bhur gceistiú. The guard was questioning you (plural).

Bhí an garda á gceistiú. The guard was questioning them.

So it's like mo chat, do chat, a chat, a cat, ár gcat, etc.

Beware a verbal noun that starts with a vowel:

Táimid á ól. We are drinking it (masculine, maybe bainne or uisce)
Táimid á hól. We are drinking it (feminine, maybe buttermilk or beer)
Táimid á n-ól. We are drinking them (a multipack of fruit juice.)


Bhí an garda do mo cheistiú. The guard was questioning me.

Bhí an garda do mo cheistiú. The guard was questioning me.

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Pól (p188.as1.exs.dublin.eircom.net - 159.134.224.188)
Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 03:47 pm:   Edit Post Print Post

Thanks alot, I'm think I've got the hang of it. Just to make sure, are these right:?

The world which God created
An domhan a gcruthaigh Dia é

The world which created God
An domhan a chruthaigh Dia

--

The boy they were talking to
An buachaill a raibh siad ag caint leis

The boy who was talking to them
An buachaill a bhí ag caint leo

--

I was the person who was hitting him
Ba mise an duine ná a raibh sé á bhualadh agam

I was the person he was hitting
Ba mise an duine ná a raibh sé do mo bhualadh

--

I was the person who hit him
Ba mise an duine a bhuail sé

I was the person he it
Ba mise an duine a mbuail sé mé

--

The person who puts the child into its bed
An duine a chuireann an leanbh isteach ina leaba

The person the child puts into its bed
An duine a gcuireann an leanbh isteach ina leaba é

--

What's the story with verbs like d'fhág, for example

D'fhág sé an teach
Is é an fear a d'fhág an teach ??

D'fhág an teach é
Is é an fear a bhfág an teach é ??

--

You've been great help to me, thanks alot.

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Seosamh Mac Bhloscaidh (dialup-64.158.185.170.dial1.newyork1.level3.net - 64.158.185.170)
Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 12:43 am:   Edit Post Print Post

M'anam go bhfuil a lán ceisteanna agat. Ach is fiú iad a chur.

>The world which God created
An domhan a gcruthaigh Dia é.Is é an fear a bhfaca mise é
Is é an fear a chonaic mé The boy they were talking to
An buachaill a raibh siad ag caint leisThe boy who was talking to them
An buachaill a bhí ag caint leo I was the person who was hitting him
Ba mise an duine ná a raibh sé á bhualadh agam I was the person he was hitting
Ba mise an duine ná a raibh sé do mo bhualadh Ba mise an duine a bhuail é

I was the person he [h]it
Ba mise an duine a mbuail sé mé

>Ba mise an duine a bhuail sé.

--

The person who puts the child into its bed
An duine a chuireann an leanbh isteach ina leaba
Ceart agus an-mhaith mar abairt.

The person the child puts into its bed
An duine a gcuireann an leanbh isteach ina leaba é
Is é an duine a chuireann an leanbh (isteach) ina leaba é
(Is é) an duine a chuireann an leanbh isteach ina leaba. (But again this last sentence could be understood either way.)


--

What's the story with verbs like d'fhág, for example

D'fhág sé an teach
Is é an fear a d'fhág an teach ??

These are correct sentences that mean:
He left the house.
He is the man who left the house. (Logically, the other posibility wouldn't come into play here, but gramatically it could: if you were writing some sort of fantasy where the house left the man.)

D'fhág an teach é
Ah -- fantasy. The house left him/it.

Is é an fear a bhfág an teach é ??
>Is é an fear ar fhág an teach é.
He is the man that the house left.

The sense of this last sentence, the late hour here (which
has me punchy) and my own problems with relative clauses all leaves me wanting to issue a disclaimer.

Here's a pair of samples from the Christian Brothers Irish Grammar:

Sin an fear a mhol an sagart.
That is the man who praised the priest.
That is the man whom the priest praised.

Sin an fear ar mhol an sagart é.
That is the man whom the priest praised.

In the simpler but ambiguous example you have the direct relative with the particle "a" followed my lenition (and "d'" in the case of verbs starting with vowels and "f" in the past and conditional.) Easy.

In the more complicated but unambiguous example you have the indirect relative particle "a" or "ar" (in the past, except for a few irregulars like "faca" -- saw). This "a" causes eclipsis and the "ar" causes lenition. With either you use the dependent form, if there one exists. Not easy.

If being "punchy" caused me to get anything wrong here, I hope Dennis or the other Seosamh will correct me. Ach maidir leat féin, tóg go bog é. Beidh onóracha agat.

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Seosamh Mac Bhloscaidh (dialup-64.158.185.170.dial1.newyork1.level3.net - 64.158.185.170)
Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 12:54 am:   Edit Post Print Post

Disregard everything up to the sentence about putting the child in the bed. Something strange happened, not because of being punchy (ha) but because of the way I had set it up with the symbol > and its partner. Seachnaítear iad.

The world which God created
An domhan a gcruthaigh Dia é.

This should be:

Is é an domhan ar chruthaigh Dia é.
It's the world that God created.
I see that I tricked you into using eclipsis without meaning to do so. "Bhfaca" is really irregular. Also I wouldn't drop the copula with this pattern.

He's the man whom I saw
Is é an fear a bhfaca mise é.
Is é an fear a chonaic mé.

The simpler way would be your second sentence (which was correct):

The world which created God, or, the world which God created
An domhan a chruthaigh Dia

--

>he boy they were talking to
An buachaill a raibh siad ag caint leisBa mise an duine a bhuail é

I was the person he [h]it
Ba mise an duine a mbuail sé mé

>Ba mise an duine a bhuail sé.

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