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Saorbhriathar misuse?
Posted: 07 January 2016 06:04 PM   Ignore ]  
Comhalta
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Reading a news item on Nuacht TG4, i came across this sentence:

Níl a fhios go fóill áfach a bhfuil aon bheartas ann faoina bhféadfaidh teaghlaigh díluacháil a dhéanamh ar na tithe a buaileadh ag tuilte...

Am I correct in thinking that this is the autonomous/saorbhriathar “buaileadh” and is being used “improperly”  here with an agent, “ag tuilte”?

I have found some other examples of this usage, including in the Irish version of a report (PDF) from the Health & Safety Authority:

Ar 6 Márta 2006, buaileadh fostaí ag béalmhír druilire ó innealra muilleála…a bhí ag bogadh faoi luas

and even on Beo!

...ceann de na hollscoileanna is mó a buaileadh ag stailceanna le trí bliana anuas.

(which is also cited as an example on Pota Focal.)

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Posted: 08 January 2016 10:03 AM   Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
Comhalta
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Normally it’s not used with an agent like that, but it’s not strictly incorrect to do so, and such constructions have existed in the language for a long time.

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Posted: 08 January 2016 12:40 PM   Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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There’s a paper by D. Ó Sé in Ériu, Vol. 56 (2006), pp. 85-115:
“Agent Phrases with the Autonomous Verb in Modern Irish”
Online at jstor:
http://www.jstor.org/stable/30007052?loginSuccess=true&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

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Posted: 24 January 2016 11:57 AM   Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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No, that usage is fine.

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Posted: 26 January 2016 03:21 PM   Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Héilics Órbhuí - 24 January 2016 11:57 AM

No, that usage is fine.

Sez who?

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Posted: 26 January 2016 05:25 PM   Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Cheapfainn go bhfuil sé sin soiléir.

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Posted: 27 January 2016 07:49 AM   Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Tusa a deir?

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Posted: 27 January 2016 11:27 AM   Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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An bhfuil rud eicint ag dó ne geirbe agat?

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Posted: 27 January 2016 01:18 PM   Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Tá leoga. smile Mí-úsáid an tsaorbhriathair - comhréir an Bhéarla a bheith á brú  ar an Ghaeilge.

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Posted: 27 January 2016 04:10 PM   Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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A Hugo, má tá point á dhéanamh agat, cuir in iúl go hiomlán é, le do thoil.  Ar an taobh eile, má tá troid de dhíth ort, tóg go háit éigin eile é.

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Seáinín Mac Conraoi
Dhá dheacracht í an Ghaeilge, is fiú í a fhoghlaim.

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Posted: 27 January 2016 11:30 PM   Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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B’fhéidir nach bhfuil an ceart agam, ach tá a leithéid in úsáid go forleathan fiú amháin i measc cainteoirí líofa/dhúchais sa lá atá inniu ann.  Feicim gur cheadaítí é i nGaeilge anallód leis na réamfhocail “ag, le, ó” (muna bhfuil dul amú orm).  Mar sin is léir go bhfuil an “mhí-úsáid” sa teanga i bhfoirm amháin nó i bhfoirm eile le fada an lá. 

Mar a dúirt Seáinín, má tá tuairim faoi leith agat maidir leis, abair amach é.  Ní ollamh mise, agus ní miste liom ceartúcháin.  Ach más ag iarraidh cé hé mise atá tú, níl móran le rá agam faoi cheist chomh suarach leis sin.

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