mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » General Discussion (Irish and English) » 2 ways of saying? « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sériál
Member
Username: Sériál

Post Number: 34
Registered: 06-2011
Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2011 - 12:19 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

I've run across a predicament...

"Tá lón á ithe ag na fir." vs. "Tá na fir ag ithe lón."
(I believe that's what I saw...I'm going from memory so it may be a little incorrect...Gabh mo leisceal...)

In articles and other things I have read, I see the "á ithe" construction a lot more possibly because of the third person. I know in first person I see the "ag ithe" construction a lot more.

I was just wondering which may acutally be more commonly used in speech and everyday writing, and if there are any subtle differences in conotation or translation between the two sentence constructions?

Rosetta stone is more about immersion and association rather than indepth linguistics and grammar, so any info here is greatly appreciated.

Go raibh maith agaibh!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sériál
Member
Username: Sériál

Post Number: 35
Registered: 06-2011
Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2011 - 12:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

And also, just to clarify, are both of these questions correct?

"Carb as duit?"
and
"Cad as duit?"

Go raibh maith agaibh!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 4021
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2011 - 01:24 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

They are right, but a length accent is missing in the first one :

Cárb as duit?

The difference between these 2 sentences is just a dialectal difference: cad as duit is Munster Irish.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Wee_falorie_man
Member
Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 287
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2011 - 01:32 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

As far as I know, "Tá an lón á ithe ag na fir" and "Tá na fir ag ithe an lóin" mean exactly the same thing and are equally used. Notice that in the 2nd sentence, the genitive form "lóin" is used.

Táim ag léamh an leabhair - the genitive of "leabhar" is used in this sentence.
Táim an leabhar á léamh agam - this means the same thing but the genitive is not used in this type of sentence.

I think the type of sentence with "á" is often used whenever the genitive form seems a bit awkward or is not known - but I could be wrong on this; I'm only a learner. This is a great question and I look forward to the answers from some of the fluent speakers around here.

Cad - southern Ireland

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 11764
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2011 - 01:45 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

I'd agree with WFM about both being used. And I don't think there is any 1st person 3rd person split.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Wee_falorie_man
Member
Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 288
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2011 - 02:42 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Whew, thanks for confirming what I said, Aonghus. A person from Múscraí told me this a few years ago and I never actually double-checked it.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1546
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2011 - 03:52 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Rosetta Stone does this a lot. One is a passive construction and one is an active construction. That's not to say that they may not both be used with equal frequency and meaning in practice, but there is a distinction.

"Tá na fir ag ithe an lóin" - The men are eating the lunch.

"Tá an lón á ithe ag na fir" - The lunch is being eaten by the men.

(did RS use "an lón" [the lunch] or "a lón" [their lunch])?

Either way, "á ithe" means "at its eating" whereas "ag ithe" is the verbal noun construction "eating."

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sériál
Member
Username: Sériál

Post Number: 36
Registered: 06-2011
Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2011 - 04:43 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Ah, I see. It's more about passive and active voice in the sentences. I know in my writing classes, my professors prefered us to use the active voice. I guess it's just preference on how you want to say it. :)

And thanks for the pointers about the genitive case. I still have trouble remembering when to use it. I also have trouble remember which prepositions and constructions cause lention and elipsis too, but I'm working on it slowly. :D

Go raibh maith agaibh!

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.


©Daltaí na Gaeilge