Hello, I have a new small question : In Munster Irish, are the synthetic forms or verbs like "olair" "olaid" commonly used ? I had never really read they were they were but wikipedia says they are.
thank you

I don't think the 2nd sg ending (-(a)ir) is common in the present tense, but the others are:
-(a)im
-(a)imíd
-(a)id

in the past tense:
-as
-ais
-amair
-abhair
-adar

etc

From talking to Munster speakers, even if they don't use the synthetic endings themselves, they see them as normal.

My own personal observations would be:
-(a)im
-(a)imíd
for the present and
-(e)amair
for the past are always used.

-(e)as
for the past 1p. sg. is commonly used.

-(a)id
-(e)adar
Varies a lot, just as common as analytic.

-(a)is
Rare

-(a)ir
Very rare.

I'm not expert though, Carmanach would probably know.

As I have choosed to study the munster dialect, can totally forget relative forms of verbs?
I think so, it's just to have a confirmation.

quote:

can totally forget relative forms of verbs?

Yes! For some reason, Munster Irish has lost them, while it has kept old endings like -as (past 1st sg) and -aid (present 3th pl)...

should I remove the 3rd plural ending when a subject is specified?
ólaid na fir
ólann na fir

In Munster, I have read the "do" particle was often lenited, but I don't know in which cases. Can you help me?

(Message edited by hugo75 on March 23, 2011)

(Message edited by hugo75 on March 23, 2011)

ólaid - they drink
na fir - the men

ólaid na fir - they drink the men (it doesn't really make sense)

ólann na fir - the men drink

Ólaid bainne. - They drink milk.

Ólann na fir bainne. - The men drink milk.

mmm.. Is breá liom bainne.

"ólaid na fir - they drink the men (it doesn't really make sense)"


maybe but as far as i remember this is what is used in Keatings "Foras Feasa na hÉireann"?

Really? I know they say "olaid siad" but "olaid na fir" sounds odd to me. Maybe I'll try to verify what they would write in Old Irish...

in a Grammar of the Irish language -1845- (O Donovan) pg 152 it gives:

Some Irish writer, however, among whom may be reckoned the two of the most remarkable Irish antiquaries of the 17th century, namely Dr Keating and Duald Mac Firbis, use the synthetic form of the verb in the present and future tenses of the indicative mood, when the 3rd person plural is expressed, as ceilid siad, they conceal; ceilfid siad, they will conceal. But in the past tense this could not be done, for cheileadar siad would be incorrect, and seems to warrant the conclusion, that the introduction of the termination id for idh;, in the other 2 tenses, is not analogical. When, however, the nominative is a substantive, the synthetic termination is retained, as cheileadar daoine an nidh; sin, "the men concealed that thing"