IN Gaeltalk they give the sentence:

Cén bád a thagann isteach gach lá.

But in TYI, (Dillon.) Cén isn't used anywhere. Cé acu is used for which, yet they describe it as which (of them), so I'm wondering if it is used now, just not then? or not at all (in Munster)?

They tend to mix and match Standard and Munster a lot, as Ive said previously.

Any info is appreciated, thanks.

Séamas

Cróga, TYI was traditional Cork Irish, which is not the same thing as modern Munster Irish. What I mean is that I think Carmanach has said that "cén" is used in Kerry (Corca Dhuibhne).

Cén could be: "cad é an" in traditional Cork Irish, which is what cén is short for anyway, but as you said, cé acu means "which", but note that the pronunciation is not cé acu - it is ceoca, which is how the word would be transcribed in Niamh. PUL's Séadna has:

Ciacu clú, a Ghobnait, clú na macántachta nó clú na diabladheachta?, what reputation, Gobnait? his reputation for honesty or for sorcery?

It is often (as above in that quote from Séadna), "which of two options", but not always. Niamh has (my spelling):

dhá dhéanamh amach ceoca bóthar ab fheárr nú ba réidhe nú ba chóngaraí, working out which road would be best or flatter or nearer.


Then there is cé acu acu (ceoc' acu) - this does mean "which of them". Ceoc' againn, which of us? etc.

quote:

But in TYI, (Dillon.) Cén isn't used anywhere. Cé acu is used for which, yet they describe it as which (of them), so I'm wondering if it is used now, just not then? or not at all (in Munster)?

"Cén bád/Cad é an bád a thagann isteach inniu?" are both acceptable and widely used by good speakers in Corca Dhuibhne. "Cé na/Cad iad na" are the plural forms: "Cé na/Cad iad na rudaí chonaicís thoir?" "Cé acu" is also very common.

Here are some more examples of "cén" from Clear Island. AC = Aistí ó Chléire by Donnchadh Ó Drisceoil:

cén cor atá ag mná eile á chur astu féin (AC:18)
cén t-ainm greannmhrar (AC:57)
ní fheadar cén aois a bheadh sroiste ag cailín sula dtéadh sí i mbuín an olagóin, (AC:69)
Ní fheadar cad ina thaobh é, nó cén bunús a bhí leis - má bhí aon bhunús ar aon chor leis,(AC:66)
cén ionadh mar sin gur inár gcéad scoil náisiúnta atá sé?(AC)
Ní fheadar cén chrích a rug orthu (AC:54)
agus is ag Dia féin atá a fhios cén t-ainm greannmhar atá anois ar Bhoilg na Feamnaí (AC:57)
cén diabhal gnó atá againn de rudaí a shéideamar uainn fadó? (AC)
cén diabhal a dhein sé ná raibh ceart aige . . .? (AC:31)
cén ionadh mar sin gur inár gcéad scoil náisiúnta atá sé? (AC)

I think that a speaker of Donnchadh Ó Drisceoil's generation having "cén" in his own speech shows that it must be tradtional Munster Irish.

quote:

Cén could be: "cad é an" in traditional Cork Irish, which is what cén is short for anyway

Not true. "cén" is a contraction of cé + an.

Bear in mind as well that native Cork Irish is not confined to West Muskerry. West Muskerry is just one variety of Cork Irish. There are others which show minor variations from one another in terms of pronunciation but also in terms of vocabulary and some grammatical points. See Brian Ó Cuív's Irish Dialects and Irish Speaking Districts for a broad overview of the various forms of Irish spoken across County Cork.

As I've said before TYI is a book for learners of Irish and not a linguistics text or an exhaustive account of the local dialect.

What CorkIrish says of "cé acu" is true. "Cé acu" is used in sentences where a choice between two things is mentioned:

N'fheadar cé acu Béarla nó Gaelainn a bhíodar a labhairt

Cé acu acu is used when the things between which there is a choice are not mentioned:

N'fheadar cé acu acu a bhíodar a labhairt

"Cé acu" can be pronounced either /k'okə/ or /k'akə/.

"Cad é" can also be pronounced "goid é" /gəd ˈeː/.