>>Do deineadh goin galáin dé

Apparently, according to Dinneen this means he died by running the gauntlet, with everyone stabbing him (see under "goin"). But this is an odd word - it is not listed in NÓD1977, and the entry in PSD1927 under "goin" shows the form ought to be "goin galann" with "goin galáin" in parentheses. A look at galann "an enemy" shows that galán is an alternative for this.

But I can't find any evidence for a word galann/galáin in NÓD1977 meaning "enemy". Am I right in assuming this word is totally obsolte, having been replaced by namhad?

Funny - when I read it and looked up a few entries, I at first thought "do deineadh goin galáin de" meant "he was turned into a piece of a pillar"!!!!

In my Ó Dónaill it gives pg 658

Goin 1 v.n of goin 2 Wound; stab, sting, hurt

unless I am missing the point of the query.

oops, I didnt even see the part about galáin. Maybe I should read the WHOLE post next time.

Sometimes you can spot trends in words in languages (eg fl- is usually good word in English; sl- usually something negative).

I think in Irish, they like alliterative phrases. Like "sciot scot a dhéanamh de rud" (to mess something up, destroy it, ruin it). And I think "goin galáin" has an alliterative ring to it in Irish, it sounds like a really Irish word!

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they like alliterative phrases

Quite - verbal traditions do - you should lookup ruthag ag some stage. They make it easier to declaim stories.

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But I can't find any evidence for a word galann/galáin in NÓD1977 meaning "enemy". Am I right in assuming this word is totally obsolete, having been replaced by namhad?

I would think so: It may even have been on the way out before, barring such phrases.

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I think in Irish, they like alliterative phrases

My favourite is Rup Rap.

Ruthag? In Séadna there is this:

i gcionn tamaill do stad sé de na ruthagaibh cainte sin agus d’fheuch sé anonn i gcúinne an tseómra - after a while, he stopped these tirades and looked over to the corner of the room.

What did you mean about ruthag?

I'll have to find a source, but as I understand "ruthag" is (also) a feature of story telling where alliteration is piled up to heighten the effect.

http://www.potafocal.com/Metasearch.aspx?Text=ruthag&GotoID=focal

We discussed it here

http://www.daltai.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/daltai/discus/show.pl?tpc=21&post=38796#PO ST38796

"na ruithig" (< ruthag/rothag) are the "runs" in storytelling. "Ruthag" is also the barb of a fishing hook (< friofac).

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A look at galann "an enemy" shows that galán is an alternative for this.

That may well explain it.

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But I can't find any evidence for a word galann/galáin in NÓD1977 meaning "enemy".

Just 'cos it ain't in Ó Dónaill, don't mean it's not in the language! I have many fine words and phrases in my notes which Ó Dónaill makes no mention of: giordaí, tá an scéal ina sciathán leathair acu, léireach (not variant of léir in go léir!), lomóg, Gairdín na Maighdine Muire (Davy Jone's Locker), scúinse gaoithe, míleachadh Dé, mílcheard, muir na míthaom, etc etc etc

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>>Do deineadh goin galáin dé

There's one other possible explanation that might also explain why we have two variant forms: galann and galán. Namely, that "galann" is a compound noun made up of "gath" + "lann". As we know, in the north and west "lann" is /la:N/. In the south, perhaps the diphthong was reduced to a schwa giving two forms. It might even be a combination of "Gall" (foreigner) + "lann" (blade) tying in with the whole "enemy" thing. Improbable perhaps so it is probably better to go with Dinneen on this one.

Yes, it's amazing how Dinneen's remains vital for reading Irish, despite the compilation of NÓD1977. You seem to need both, and even then you can still find yourself unable to locate the word you need.

All DIL says about "galann" is "meaning uncertain" :o(

!! Well, why would someone want to look an entry up in the dictionary to read "meaning uncertain"????

a) DIL is a work in progress

b) It does actually say a little more

http://www.dil.ie/results-list.asp?mode=ADV&searchText=%20galann&HIGH=%20galann& respage=0&resperpage=10&Fuzzy=0&bhcp=1

(EXPAND ALL)

"Most commonly used in phrase `guin galann,' applied to a mortal wound given in warfare: doriṅgned guin galand de-sium andsin ┐ ro díchend F. hé, TFerbe 676" .

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!! Well, why would someone want to look an entry up in the dictionary to read "meaning uncertain"????

Er, to see if the very same dictionary might conceivably shed some light on the etymology of the word?? That's why. Is that not what this thread is all about??

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b) It does actually say a little more

Yes, but it says nothing about the possible derivation of "galann".

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!! Well, why would someone want to look an entry up in the dictionary to read "meaning uncertain"????

Apologies. I see you are referring to DIL and not my good self. :o)

To be fair to DIL, though, the Oxford Concise Dictionary oftens says "origin unknown" in reference to various words of doubtful etymology. A dictionary of Old Irish, as of any other ancient language, will undoubtedly have a number of holes in it due to lack of sufficient evidence or where the precise meaning is unclear from the evidence available.