1. Etc. I believe agus araile is the CO form, but PUL wrote:

quote:

Agus an chuid eile acu, the equivalent of "et cetera". "Et cetera" may also be expressed by the phrase "a's neithe"; bainne a's neithe, "milk, etc."

PUL had an obsession with "a's". When "agus" was reduced, he refused to write "is", as he said that would have a slender s, and so wrote "a's", although Brian Ó Cuív is on record as poo-poohing this, as the copula itself is written "is" with a broad s. So what PUL means above is "bainne is nithe".

2. Copy. I said previously that PUL prefers macshamhail leabhair for a copy of a book. He also accepts macleabhar. He wrote:

quote:

I have never heard the word cóip used except in a disparaging sense for "a class of people." An chóip means "that vile lot", "that low class." Formerly sliocht an leabhair was used to express "a copy of the book".

"2. Copy. I said previously that PUL prefers macshamhail leabhair for a copy of a book. He also accepts macleabhar."


Mar sin, a chiallaíonn sé seo thuar sé ar an tóir a bhí ar an "Macbook?"

(sorry, I can never resist a pun)

I actually understood the pun without the aid of a dictionary...

...this makes me quite happy.

http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/154

Maidir le macleabhair, nó sliocht leabhair - tá ciall leis sin nuair is lámhscríbhinn atá i gceist.

Ach leis an leabhar clóite, tá "macshamhail leabhair" níos ciallmhaire.

Ach ós rud é gurbh cóip atá ag an gcóip atá thuas anois, ...

Tá "cóip" sa teangain le fada an lá.

"Macasamhail leabhair" - tugtar san ar "facsimile (of a book)" sa lá athá inniu ann.

"sliocht" - is gnáthach so ar "extract".

Is breá an focal é "macleabhar" ach is beag an mhaith é mara bhfuil sé sa chaint ach ag éinne amháin.

'sea, a Charmanaigh, dob fhearr liom gan úsáid a dhéanamh d'fhocalaibh iasachta mar a bhfuil focail bhreátha Gaelainne ann. Mar shompla:

make a copy: macshamhail a dhéanamh (in inead cóipeail)
print out: clóbhualadh amach (in inead printéail)

agus an chuid eile acu.

Is cuma liom an mbeadh aon duine ann go mbeadh na focail sin aige - táid siad le fáil in oibreachaibh an Athar Peadair.

quote:

'sea, a Charmanaigh, dob fhearr liom gan úsáid a dhéanamh d'fhocalaibh iasachta mar a bhfuil focail bhreátha Gaelainne ann.

Focal Gaelainne is ea "cóip" le stáir fhada do bhliantaibh dáltha "cóipeáil".

quote:

Is cuma liom an mbeadh aon duine ann go mbeadh na focail sin aige - táid siad le fáil in oibreachaibh an Athar Peadair.

Ach mara bhfuilid siad i mbéal na ndaoine sa Gaeltachtaí cén mhaith iad?

quote:

Conidh betha Meic Creiche co n-uicce-sin, 'arna scríobadh lasan m-brathair m-bocht Michel O Clérigh i c-conuent brathar Dúin na n-Gall, 11 Maij 1635, asan c-cóip do scríobh an bráthair cédna i c-conueint Innsi i t-Tuadh-Mumain a mí Iuin na bliadna-sa 1634, asan leabur do sccríobh Maoilechlainn O Callannáin h-i c-Cill Maoilodhrain do chomarba Mheic Creiche, an tan rob áois do Chriost 1528.

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/G201012/text019.html

23] Tommás mac Maghnusa Mhégg Uidir dh'éc .i. soi
24] chléirigh ocus dhuine thuicsigh tréighighe re Laidin ocus re
25] Gaoidilige, ocus dob ferr cóip leabar Laidne ocus
26] Ghaoidilge a comhgar dhó, ocus fer muirir mhóir d'iomchur
27] ocus tighe aoidhed do chongmáil.

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/G100010B/text009.html

quote:

Ach mara bhfuilid siad i mbéal na ndaoine sa Gaeltachtaí cén mhaith iad?

Nách féidir leat Caesar a léigheadh sa Laidean, cé ná fuil éinne ann go bhfuil Laidean ó dhúchas aige? Cad 'na thaobh nár chóir dom suím a chur i seanchas litríochta Gaelainne?

quote:

11 Maij 1635, asan c-cóip do scríobh an bráthair cédna

'sea, tá roinnt somplaí maithe agat ansan, ach níor airigh riamh an tAthair Peadar focal cóip á dh'úsáid leis an mbrí sin. Duairt sé go raibh saghas Gaelainne aige do bhí aige sna Muimhnigh go díreach roimis an ndrochshaol, agus is dóigh liom, dá maireadh an Ghaelainn mar theangain dúchas formhór na nGael, go mba rud cosmhail le Gaelainn an Athar Peadair í...

quote:

Nách féidir leat Caesar a léigheadh sa Laidean, cé ná fuil éinne ann go bhfuil Laidean ó dhúchas aige? Cad 'na thaobh nár chóir dom suím a chur i seanchas litríochta Gaelainne?

Tá lánchead agat do rogha rud a rá agus a scrí, a dhuine chóir. :o)

Another points from PUL's Notes on Irish Words:

Stair - a declamatory gush of speech, a rush of speed in running. It does not mean "history".

Seanachus béil, tradition. Seanachus, history. The Irish for "history" is NOT stair. Stair means "recitation".

Taidhbhreamh. Do deineadh taidhbheamh dom. I dreamt. I have never heard do thaidhbhrigheas. That is quite reasonable because the dream is not the act of the person dreaming. Similarly, do taisbeánadh aisling dó, he saw a vision.

Tóirthneach. I have always distinctly heard the th in the middle of this word. I have never heard tóirneach...

Um. I have been told that this word um is obsolete in other places. Well, it is so thoroughly a living word for me that I could not get on without it. I have all my life been listening to um Nodlaig, Um Cháisg, Um Lughnasa, Um thráthnóna, Um an dtaca so, Uim Fhéil' Bríghde, Uim Fhéil' Pádraig, Uim Fhéil' Michíl. I hear people sometimes now say cuir ort do chasóg. What I always heard is cuir umat do chasóg.

Daoine. Nuair a chonaic sé an cor a bhí ar na daoine. Why not daoinibh? My experience has been that when daoinibh is used a particular body of people is meant, e.g. Bíon ocras ar dhaoine uaireannta. Bíon an rath ar dhaoinibh áirithe. The first statement is true of people in general. The second contemplates certain people only. So, bhí an tír folamh ó dhaoine.... NOT ó dhaoinibh.

DIL says different wrt stair & seanchas:

http://www.dil.ie/results-list.asp?mode=ADV&searchText=%20stair&HIGH=%20stair&re spage=0&resperpage=10&Fuzzy=0&bhcp=1

http://www.dil.ie/results-list.asp?mode=ADV&searchText=%20senchas&HIGH=%20sencha s&respage=0&resperpage=10&Fuzzy=0&bhcp=1

---

Do you not think that you may be relying overly on a single writer with (even in his day) strong but controversial opinions on such matters?

Yes, I might. Probably am. But he had a strong sense of what was correct in Irish (which is not the same thing as what is "native"). So showing that the DIL has examples of usage in its corpus is not incompatible with the idea that in the mid-19th century some strong Munster speakers deprecated that same usage. Eg, you could take a corpus-based approach and "prove" that impact is a verb in English--it undoubtedly is used as such by probably the majority of native speakers around the world--but that doesn't mean that everyone agrees that that usage is correct. PUL's position was logically precarious, as he claimed to support Cainnt na nDaoine, but on so many issues he clearly was not content to go along with whatever the average native speaker said (see his comments on "bhí siad", which, at least after the decline of Irish in Munster, became the majority form in Irish). So what does his Cainnt na nDaoine mean then? Well he didn't want to go back to the Irish of Seathrún Céitinn - to forms that no longer existed. So he was plumping for real, existing forms, although not necessarily the forms used by all or the majority of speakers. Eg when he wrote to one of his editors that he had to keep "thoibh sé" in, without changing it to "thogh sé", because, according to him "thogh sé" didn't mean anything, as it didn't exist - surely he was incorrect there, as there would have been many native speakers of Irish who did say "thogh sé"....

Another passage from that book. It is a compilation of brief explanations given by PUL in the Cork Weekly Examiner, so most of them are very short. This is all there is on the following topic:

Go deimhnighthe, most certainly. This placing of "go" before an adjective has the effect of intensifying the idea which the adjective contains. Tá sé liobarnach, it is untidy. Tá sé liobarnach go maith, it is very untidy. Tá sé go liobarnach, it is untidy and no mistake. What the grammars say about turning an adjective into an adverb by prefixing "go" gives very little genuine information.

quote:

Stair - a declamatory gush of speech, a rush of speed in running. It does not mean "history".

"Stair" and "stáir" are both found in speech; they don't mean quite the same thing.

quote:

I have never heard do thaidhbhrigheas. That is quite reasonable because the dream is not the act of the person dreaming.

It can be used where one would say "I never dreamed of saying such a thing!" and the like:

níor thaibhrigh a gcroí air a fhiafraí = their hearts would never dream of asking (AC:38)
seanbhean . . . ná taibhreodh go deo gabháil amach gan a deisréad = who would never dream of going out,(AC:64),
dá dtaibhreodh duine ar a leithéid is teaspach a bheadh air; if one dreamt of such of a thing he would be high and mighty, uppish, arrogant, displaying animal spirits, exuberance, (AC:76),
Ba dhream iad ná taibhreodh go deo ar na stations do chur uathu ar eagla mallacht a thitim orthu; they were a group who would never dream of abandoning the stations for fear of a curse befalling them, (AC:76),

AC = Aisti ó Chléire

quote:

Tóirthneach. I have always distinctly heard the th in the middle of this word. I have never heard tóirneach...

That's quite normal. The same thing is found in CD.

quote:

I hear people sometimes now say cuir ort do chasóg. What I always heard is cuir umat do chasóg.

Cuir ort do chasóg is the norm in CD. I'm not sure cuir umat is used at all there. In fact, almost all of the examples I have containing "um" are from Cléire and Amhlaoibh Ó Luínse.

Gheobhaidh tú "cuir umat" i mBíobla Má Nuad

Gal 3:27 Gach duine agaibh a baisteadh i gCríost, tá Críost curtha uime aige mar éide.

Ceann eile ó Chéad Litir Pheadair: 5:5

Cuirigí umaibh, gach duine agaibh, an umhlaíocht i leith a chéile, mar “cuireann Dia in aghaidh lucht an uabhair, ach bronnann sé a ghrásta ar lucht na humhlaíochta.”

>>>Cuirigí umaibh, gach duine agaibh, an umhlaíocht i leith a chéile, mar “cuireann Dia in aghaidh lucht an uabhair, ach bronnann sé a ghrásta ar lucht na humhlaíochta.”
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OK +1 point to PÓF for saying umaibh, and subtract 1 point for cuirigí instead of cuiridh.

1) Umaibh is standard Irish

http://www.potafocal.com/Metasearch.aspx?Text=um&GotoID=focloirbeag

2) Not sure PÓF was the translator. (rather than the editor)