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Corkirish
Member Username: Corkirish
Post Number: 549 Registered: 10-2010
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 05:54 am: | |
Is í comhairle a thabharfainnse dhuit, a Thaidhg,” ar sise, “ná gan aon chur isteach ná amach a bheith agat ar an scéal a thuilleadh an fhaid ná déanfaidh éinne aon chur isteach ná amach ort mar gheall air. Is "cur isteach is amach" a standard phrase? Or should it be understood in separate parts? Eg cur isteach - interfere, and cur amach - to say something, express yourself on the subject? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 11030 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 06:01 am: | |
"aon chur isteach ná amach" is a standard phrase. It emphasises: A bit like "no interference at all, at all" (Message edited by aonghus on January 05, 2011) |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 11031 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 06:05 am: | |
"cur amach ar X" on its own means knowledge of X. |
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Sineadw
Member Username: Sineadw
Post Number: 564 Registered: 06-2009
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 06:33 am: | |
Lovely expression David and something wise people practice! So say a man wanted to ask his brother out for a drink one night but the brother had an illness, the man might decide not to ask him out for the drink in case he'd catch a cold or his illness would progress and he would get the blame for it! I'm sure you've heard of the phrase 'níor chuir sé isteach nó amach orm'- it didn't bother me at all.. didn't affect me one way or another. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 11032 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 06:49 am: | |
"ná" and "nó" are synonyms in this phrase. |
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Corkirish
Member Username: Corkirish
Post Number: 550 Registered: 10-2010
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 06:55 am: | |
Aonghus, it has to be ná in this exact phrase, as it means "nor" - following a previous negative phrase (gan...). |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 11033 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 07:03 am: | |
ná [cónasc] = nó in abairt dhiúltach (níl mac ná iníon aige). nó [cónasc] cón focal a úsáidtear idir dhá rogha (fear nó bean; dubh nó bán). (Message edited by aonghus on January 05, 2011) |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 11034 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 07:06 am: | |
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Carmanach
Member Username: Carmanach
Post Number: 936 Registered: 04-2009
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 09:54 am: | |
quote:Aonghus, it has to be ná in this exact phrase, as it means "nor" - following a previous negative phrase (gan...). Precisely. "ní dhein sé aon chuir isteach NÁ amach orm". In Corca Dhuibhne, "cuir isteach" has come to be understood as a single word in phrases such "ní chuir sé ao' chuisteach orm" at least. Note the loss of the r in the verbal noun "cuir". "Ní chuireas isteach ná amach air" = I didn't interfere with him in any way, is a common expression. "Ní chuireas chugat ná uait" means the same thing. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 11035 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 09:58 am: | |
Ceist tuisceana: (Táim beagán dúr inniu): An amhlaidh: a) go bhfuil "níor chuir sé isteach nó amach orm" mícheart nó b) nach bhfuil sé sa chaint ó dheas nó c) go bhfuil ciall eile leis |
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Carmanach
Member Username: Carmanach
Post Number: 938 Registered: 04-2009
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 10:39 am: | |
quote:An amhlaidh: a) go bhfuil "níor chuir sé isteach nó amach orm" mícheart nó b) nach bhfuil sé sa chaint ó dheas nó c) go bhfuil ciall eile leis Bhuel, ní dh'airíos riamh "ní chuir sé isteach NÓ amach orm" agus ni fheaca i scríbhinn é ach chomh beag ach dh'fhéadfadh go mbeadh a leithéid ann i mball éintig. Níl ach "isteach NÁ amach" agam im chuid nótaí féin ó Chorca Dhuibhne agus ó Chléire. Pé ar domhan é nó nách é, b'ait liom "nó" in ionad "ná" i gclásal briathair dhiúltaigh. Ina dhiaidh sin féin, cím an méid seo aiges na Bráithre (26.4): 26.4 Cuirtear na rialacha roimhe seo i bhfeidhm i gcás fochlásail chomhordaitheacha freisin, ach gur féidir ná a úsáid in ionad nó má tá cor diúltach san uaschlásal: níl a fhios agam cé thú féin ná cad é an gnó atá agat díom; is deacair a rá cá bhfuil sé ná cad atá á dhéanamh aige. Úsáidtear ná in ionad nó go minic mar sin idir dhá chlásal neamhchúiseacha: cibé duine a rachaidh ná nach rachaidh, rachaidh mise. Ní úsáidtear ná in ionad nó idir dhá chlásal ainmfhoclacha dar tús cé acu: níl a fhios agam cé acu a thiocfaidh sé nó nach dtiocfaidh. Is inspéise gur ndeirid siad "gur féidir ná a úsáid in ionad nó" ach ní dóigh liom go mbaineann san go díreach le habairt do shórt "Ní chuir sé isteach ná amach orm". |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 11037 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 10:45 am: | |
"isteach ná amach" a bheadh agamsa freisin: ach ó tharla gur luaigh Sinéad an leagan eile... Chaith mé súil ar an gcorpas: "agus an áit nach bhfuil duine ar bith ag cur isteach nó amach ort ... " . -- Lillis Ó Laoire, Ar Chreag i lár na Farraige Níor chuir iargúltacht na háite isteach nó amach uirthi . -- Pádraig Ó Baoighill, Ceann Tìre/Earraghàidheal Ár gComharsanaigh Gaelacha (De réir na sonraí atá sa chorpas, is cainteoirí dúchais an dís sin) |
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Carmanach
Member Username: Carmanach
Post Number: 940 Registered: 04-2009
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 10:58 am: | |
Is ait liomsa é, caithfidh mé a rá. Ní foláir nó gur nós Olltach é. A Lughaidh? Cad é do mheas féin air seo? (Message edited by carmanach on January 05, 2011) |
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Sineadw
Member Username: Sineadw
Post Number: 566 Registered: 06-2009
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 12:23 pm: | |
I mentioned that phrase just as it is so well-known, wasn't even thinking about the "nó" in it. The Corpas has many examples of the nó in this context but twice as many with the ná, and as we know the corpas records include both native and non native speakers. Leaning towards the ná now though. Frig ye :) |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 11040 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 12:28 pm: | |
I picked the two examples from native speakers: both, as Ailín pointed out, Ulstermen. I'd say though that both are correct; but that "ná" is commoner. It'll be interesting to hear what Lughaidh has to say. nó nó ná? Ná bíodh drogall ort nó ná ná a úsáid! |
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Sineadw
Member Username: Sineadw
Post Number: 567 Registered: 06-2009
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 12:40 pm: | |
..agus hú nó há á chur díot :) |
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Carmanach
Member Username: Carmanach
Post Number: 945 Registered: 04-2009
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 12:59 pm: | |
quote:Leaning towards the ná now though. Frig ye :) LOL! |
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Sineadw
Member Username: Sineadw
Post Number: 568 Registered: 06-2009
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 01:03 pm: | |
Is Bríd around too? Would be good just to hear what she says for this |
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Brídmhór
Member Username: Brídmhór
Post Number: 112 Registered: 04-2009
| Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2011 - 05:31 pm: | |
I'd say "...isteach ná amach..." and yes it is a common expression. but "nó" doesn't sound wrong either. |
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Sineadw
Member Username: Sineadw
Post Number: 570 Registered: 06-2009
| Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2011 - 05:09 am: | |
Thanks Bríd! |
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