hrcak.srce.hr/file/44012

I brought this over here to try to maintain the aim of the other thread. The distinction seems useful.

(Summarized)

Native speaker

The use of the term 'native speaker' here conforms with the generally accepted usage, that of a competent speaker of Irish who acquires the language within a familial/communal setting.

Neo-native speaker

A neo-native speaker also acquires the language in a familial/communal setting, but is the offspring of co-speakers of Irish who are not native speakers but speak Irish as their household language.

Semi-speaker

Semi-speakers tend to emerge from a mixed linguistic environment where one parent is a bilingual Native Speaker of Irish and the other is a monolingual speaker of English and when Native Speaker speaks Irish productively to the children as a second household language. The more competent speakers in this linguistic grouping acquire a competency akin to native speaker ability.

Co-speaker

Co-speakers acquire Irish through some method of formal instruction, mainly by means of the Irish medium school system. Co-speakers differ from the previous categories of speakers in that their competency in the language is achieved primarily outside the familial/communal context.

English speaker

English speakers are native speakers of English with no or a very limited competency in Irish.

Cén fáth a bhfuil spéis agat san ábhar seo a Sheáin?

Níl an-spéis agam ann. Shíl mé go dtabharfadh sé cuidiú do dhaoiní eile a chonacthas domh go bhfuil spéis acu.

I am interested in this matter. I have never heard the term "neo native" with any other language. I suppose Irish is some-what unique in the fact that all (or 99.9%) of the speakers also speak English.

Thanks for the link, Seán.

The above (interesting) definitions are taken from:
C. Ó Giollagáin: Irish Language Dynamics, Coll. Antropol. 28 Suppl. 1 (2004) 73–81

In a Celtic language context, neo-native (or, rather, 'new native speaker') would also be used to describe those raised with (for example) Manx or Cornish as their usual household language, whose parents were learners.

quote:

I am interested in this matter. I have never heard the term "neo native" with any other language. I suppose Irish is some-what unique in the fact that all (or 99.9%) of the speakers also speak English.

There are neo-native speakers in many minority languages. Maybe you haven't heard "neo-native" before because you haven't read stuff about other minority languages? With non-minority languages there's not much difference between native speakers and children who've learnt the language in the country (without speaking it at home) because it's much easier to speak a language at a native-like standard when almost everybody around you is a native speaker, from your early childhood. Eg. Recent African immigrants in France : often they don't speak perfect French and they may not speak French at home but their children speak French like native speakers because everybody else is a native speaker around them : friends, teachers, neighbours etc.
With Irish and minority languages it's harder because not everybody speaks it, not everybody speaks it right etc. (Except if you live on Tory Isle or of one of the Aran Islands for instance).

If I remember corrrectly the above defintions with regardsto Irish were used in Ó Giollagáins report where he was comparing the relative strength of Rath Chairn to Ros Muc in all age categories and esp in Rath Cairn.


Re: Neo-native speaker

A neo-native speaker also acquires the language in a familial/communal setting, but is the offspring of co-speakers of Irish who are not native speakers but speak Irish as their household language.

I have met plenty people raised in places like Cavan, Sligo etc who have been raised as native speakers one parent a native Gaeltacht speaker one a schoolteacher are they not native speakers rather than neo-native speakers?

In my opinion a neo-native speaker almost implies second class among native Irish speakers

Semi-speaker

Semi-speakers tend to emerge from a mixed linguistic environment where one parent is a bilingual Native Speaker of Irish and the other is a monolingual speaker of English and when Native Speaker speaks Irish productively to the children as a second household language. The more competent speakers in this linguistic grouping acquire a competency akin to native speaker ability.

I'm sure there are families in Comhluadar the organisation for Irish speaking families where one parent only speaks Irish to the child and other parent has another language.Is that child not a native Irish speaker rather tthan a semi-speaker?

It depends on what you are trying to study.

Chíonn súil glas saol ghlas.

quote:

Re: Neo-native speaker

A neo-native speaker also acquires the language in a familial/communal setting, but is the offspring of co-speakers of Irish who are not native speakers but speak Irish as their household language.

I have met plenty people raised in places like Cavan, Sligo etc who have been raised as native speakers one parent a native Gaeltacht speaker one a schoolteacher are they not native speakers rather than neo-native speakers?

Depends how well they speak. If one parent speaks Gaeltacht Irish and the other only English, normally the child will speak Irish like his mother or father and English like his mother or father, so normally (s)he'll be a native speaker. Now, if the mother speaks native Gaeltacht Irish and the father bad Irish, the child may get bad habits by hearing his father's mistakes...

To me a semi-speaker is someone who hasn't achieved full fluency and correctness in Irish. For instance, someone who hasn't been raised up through Irish but who has always heard some Irish around him/her. So he/she's able to say things, not always in a proper way, and he/she's able to understand most of what native speakers say (at least in the same dialect).

Thanks for this, SeanW. It's a very interesting thread.

Lughaidh, I think 'semi-speaker' according to your description would then cover a lot of 'returnees' to the Donegal Gaeltacht who were born to native speakers abroad (foremostly the west of Scotland) and who moved 'back' to na Rosann etc in late childhood or early adolescence.

This group tends to understand Irish (generally only the dialect as far as I know), but hesitate to speak it. As time goes on I think they become more confident, though, and as I understand it most - if they stay in the area, attend school there etc - become active users. But I'm really not familiar with this group beyond mentions in passing in migration literature, anecdotal evidence, and people I've met myself, just so you know.

It works the other way too - it's well known that there are plenty of people in Glasgow for example who were raised by Irish-speaking parents (almost exclusively from Donegal and north Mayo), who passively understand their parents' dialect. But obviously as they don't move 'back' and immerse themselves in an Irish-speaking environment they don't become active users. They can't read Irish or understand other dialects either as far as I know.