From an article by PUL "The Sequence of Tenses" in the book Papers on Irish Idiom edited by T. F. O'Rahilly. The spelling is kept as is, but some commas are deleted as they interfere with table formatting on daltaí. I found it helpful, particularly the point that a past has to be followed by a past or a conditional unless the sense is general.

Cómhleanúint na n-Am	The Consecution of Tenses.
I n-amaibh dlúite leanan am thart am thart.	In connected tenses a past tense follows a past tense.
Dubhairt sé--	He said--
go raibh an lá breá	that the day was fine
gur bhreá an lá é	that it was a fine day
nár bh'olc é	that it was not bad
ná feidir sé	that he did not know
nách sgian a bhí aige	that it was not a knife he had
nách tusa a bhí uaig	that it was not you he wanted
nách ort do bhí sé ag glaoch	that it was not you he was calling
nár chuimhne sé ort	that he did not think of you

Mheasas--	I thought--
gur id cholla a bhís	it was asleep you were
gur ghréasaí thu	you were a shoemaker
gur bh'amadán tu	you were a fool
gur capall a bhí agut	it was a horse you had
gur chapall é	it was a horse

Shíleas gur labhrais	I thought you spoke
Thuigeas gur i gCorcaig a bhís	I understood that it was in Cork you were
Dubhraís go raibh tart ort	You said you were thirsty

Mára féidir an t-am leantach do bheith thart ní fuláir é bheith cuiníollach	If the dependent tense cannot be past it must be conditional.
Gheallais go dtiucfá amáireach	You promised that you would come to-morrow.
Dubhart go mbeadh tart 7 ocras orm nuair a thiucfainn 7 tá	I said I would be hungry and thirsty when I should arrive and I am.
Dubhairt sé go mbeadh sé anso anois 7 níl	He said he would be here now and he is not.
Dubhairt sé go mbeadh sé anso iné 7 ní raibh	He said he would be here yesterday and he was not.
Dubhairt sé go mbeadh sé anso amáireach 7 ní bheig	He said he would be here to-morrow and he will not.

Ach nuair is am coitian an t-am leantach leanfa sé gach am. Féach--	But when the dependent tense is general (that is when it means any time past present or future) it will follow any tense eg.--
Déir sé: ná bíon tréan buan	He says: that violent action does not last
Dubhairt sé: ná bíon tréan buan	He said: that violent action does not last
Déarfa sé: ná bíon tréan buan	He will say: that violent action does not last

Leanan gach am am láithreach	Present can be followed by any tense.
Deirim: go raibh	I say: that there was.
Deirim:go bhfuil	I say: that there is.
Deirim: go mbeig	I say: that there will be.
Measaim: gur bhuail	I think: that he struck.
Measaim: go mbuailean	I think: that he strikes.
Measaim: go mbuailfig	I think: that he will strike.

Isé cúis go leanan am thart am thart mar ní féidir a mhalairt. Ní fhéadfadh duine a rá "Dubhairt Tadhg go bhfuil sé ag fearthainn". Do b'ionan san 7 a rá "Dubhairt Tadhg iné go bhfuil sé ag fearthainn iniubh" i. caint éigciallaí.

The reason why past tense must follow past is because the opposite is impossible. No person could say "Thade said that it is raining". It would be the same as to say "Thade said yesterday that it is raining to-day" which is nonsense.

Leanan gach am am le teacht	Any tense can follow a future tense.
Déarfad: go raibh	I shall say: that there was.
Déarfad: go bhfuil	I shall say: that there is.
Déarfad: go mbeig	I shall say: that there will be.
Neósfad: ná raibh	I shall tell: that there was not.
Neósfad: ná fuil	I shall tell: that there is not.
Neósfad: ná beig	I shall tell: that there will not be.

Leanan gach am módh cuiníollach	Any tense can follow a conditional mood.
Déarfainn: go raibh	I should say: there was.
Déarfainn: go bhfuil	I should say: there is.
Déarfainn: go mbeig	I should say: there will be.
Ba dhó lium: gur bhuail	I should think: he struck.
Ba dhó lium: go mbuaileann	I should think: he strikes.
Ba dhó lium: go mbuailfig	I should think: he will strike.

(Message edited by corkirish on December 12, 2010)

is Dubhairt - Dúirt a dialect difference?


also what is PUL? I've seen it written here a lot but don't know what it stands for

"dubhairt" is the pre-CO classical spelling. In West Muskerry (and probably other parts of Munster) it has a diphthong /duər't'/, elsewhere it's a long vowel /duːr't'/ such as in Corca Dhuibhne.

PUL = Peadair Ua Laoghaire, or Peadar Ó Laoghaire, an author from the West Muskerry Gaeltacht.

Naomh PUL ba chirte a rá, shurely - dar le Corkirish.

Ná bí ag tarraingt PULaitíocht isteach sa scéal, maith an fear!

I was hoping that PUL's general theory of the sequence of tenses would be interesting to people... when I saw there were five posts, I thought "wow, I didn't think so many people would be interested in that aspect of syntax"... and they weren't!

Another thing is the use of the preterite for the conditional, which I have been told is emphatic in style:

mara mbeadh sé ann, do bhí an scéal níos measa go mór

[for... "do bheadh"]

Are there any other interesting tense usages in Irish? I know there is more to say on this subject. Use of the past habitual/imperfect is interesting too - it is often not used where, eg, French would have the imperfect. As far as I know, the imperfect is only used when the habitual nature of the action is being specifically highlighted and often habitual actions in the past where the habitual nature is not being focused on just go in the preterite.

That is my feeling of it anyway. Any more info/comments on tense usage that would be non-intuitive for an English speaker?

Is PUL's use of "am" for "tense" instead of "aimsir" unusual?

PULease, Aonghus... No more PULns.

quote:

mara mbeadh sé ann, do bhí an scéal níos measa go mór

[for... "do bheadh"]

Well, if I'm not mistaken, that sort of thing was the norm at one stage. "Mara stadadh an chairt in am, bhíos marbh".

See the Christian Brothers grammar, section 15.13 and 22.9 and 32.20.

Ailín, I was told specifically by an expert in Cork Irish that this preterite for conditional is emphatic.

Well, the Christian Brothers say it's used to give "cinnteacht" or "beocht" to the expression. So, it's probably a bit like saying "If the car hadn't stopped in time, you were (most defininitely) dead".

Ah yes, I'm not familiar with the Christian Brother's Grammar, or at least not with editions later than 1900.

Ah yes, to be superceded next year by the new edition... it will be much simpler once lenition and eclipsis and all cases have been abolish - could halve the size of the book...

quote:

Ah yes, to be superceded next year by the new edition... it will be much simpler once lenition and eclipsis and all cases have been abolish - could halve the size of the book...

???

Tá athbhreithniú ar an gCO ar bun
http://www.pobail.ie/ie/Lar-AonadAistriuchain/

Ag tagairt do sin atá David, is dócha.

Aonghus, Ailín and others - do you normally call a verb tense "aimsir" or "am"? The respective boundaries of these two words is very unclear to me. Any pointers?

Aimsir.

No pointers, I'm afraid.

"Aimsir" is the term used in the traditional grammars.

Well, without going into a big long description of all of the differences, but in a nutshell, "am", I imagine normally refers to a particularly point in time: "Do bhíos-sa san am san, gan angar gan ghá" as the song says. "Aimsir" means "weather" or "extended period of time" such "Na filí a bhí suas aimsir Aogáin", "the poets who were around in Aogán's time/day". You would also say "ceol, faisean, tuairimí na haimsire seo"; "today's fashion, music, opinions". "Sin mar athá san aimsir seo"; "that's how it is these days/nowadays". See Dinneen and Ó Dónaill for other uses.

quote:

/duər't'/

Out of curiosity, is it really that the coronal clusters with the first rhotic have palatalisation on both segments in Munster Irish? It is just that the rhotic is always broad in this environment in Connacht Irish.

Yes, apologies, my mistake. The rhotic is indeed broad in the consonant cluster /rt'/.

GRMA