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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (November-December) » Archive through December 13, 2010 » Six inches « Previous Next »

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Corkirish
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Username: Corkirish

Post Number: 266
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2010 - 10:47 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

I have this as: sé h-órla in Niamh.

I wondered what órla is meant to be, as the singular should be orlach, and the plural either orlaí or orlaigh.

Apparently h-prefixation means the word is in the plural, so órla is plural here.

I looked in PUL's 1902 Eolas ar Áireamh, where he shows how to use numbers and measurements in Irish, and he has "cheithre h-órlach" there... The plot thickens...

I think that, just as caoire, "plural of sheep" is /ki:rə/, and not the expected caoirigh /ki:rʹigʹ/, maybe orlaigh is simply pronounced /o:rlə/. Sé horla seems to point to that.

Cheithre horlach is harder to explain - seeing as h-prefixation means it is plural. Maybe the editor of that booklet assumed that orla is pronounced so, as the final -ch is just being missed off... when in fact the final sound being missed off was -igh and not -ch?

An bhfuil an ceart agam?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10820
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2010 - 11:08 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Can we have the whole sentence, please?

Is it definitely a length? Why the accent?

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Corkirish
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Username: Corkirish

Post Number: 267
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2010 - 11:11 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

The whole paragraph in the original spelling was:

quote:

D’imthigh sí. Níor bh’fhada gur fhill sí, agus rud éigin aici ’n-a láimh, fillte i n-éadach. D’osgail sí an t-éadach. Ímhágh do’n Mhaighdin Mhuire iseadh ’bhí aici, ímhágh airgid. An t-é a dhein an ímhágh san dhein sé go maith í. Bhí sí tímpal sé h-órla ar aoirde agus bhí sí cúmtha ana chruinn do’n réir sin, agus í fírinneach ’n-a déanamh do réir mar ba cheart cló duine a bheith. Ach bhí nídh thairis sin inti. Tháinig leis an gceárdaidhe, pé r’ bh’ é féin, sgáil gnaoi éigin do chur sa n-aghaidh i dtreó gur dhóich leat nuair fheuchfá ar an aghaidh gur bh’ í aghaidh na Maighdine féin a bhéadh ann. D’fheuch Amhlaoibh ar an ímhágh, agus má fheuch do mhothuigh sé ag teacht ’n-a chroídhe, do’n ímhágh san, uraim nár mhothuigh sé a leithéid riamh roimis sin ’n-a chroídhe.


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Corkirish
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Username: Corkirish

Post Number: 268
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2010 - 11:12 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Why the accent on órla? because vowels before medial -rl- are pronounced long in West Muskerry Irish (eg urlár, pronounced úrlár), and PUL illustrated that by a síneadh fada, although I think it possible to omit the fada, and just leave it to people's reading of "The Irish of West Muskerry" to work out that the "o" is long.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10821
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2010 - 11:16 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

I have a niggle about the effect of "timpeall" but I wouldn't be positive.

One for the experts.

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 714
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2010 - 05:08 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

I have this as: sé h-órla in Niamh.

I wondered what órla is meant to be, as the singular should be orlach, and the plural either orlaí or orlaigh.



orla is the special plural form used before numerals. The normal plural form is orlaí in Corca Dhuibhne. Orlaí is also used following a numeral with some speakers.

In the CO, orlaí is the form used with 3 - 10. Orlaí is also the normal plural not orlaigh.

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Corkirish
Member
Username: Corkirish

Post Number: 273
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 04:58 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Thank you. I now see Gaelainn Chorca Dhuibhne backs up your comments. Fascinating!



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