I started trying to use Irish at work. Just for myself like writing notes in a meeting or a checklist of things to do, etc. I work on the railroad and I know in English there is a lot of confusion with the word engineer as it can mean the person who pilots a train engine or someone who does design work (i.e. civil engineer). In Irish does the word innealtóir cover both of these definitions or does the design engineer have a different word?

Both: civil engineer is innealtóir sibhialta.

Logically, these modern words that did not exist in English a hundred years ago aren't going to be too different in Irish too. There were no civil engineers in Brian Ború's day, and so the word exists, if it exists at all in native speech, as a calque from English, where the word is a relatively new creation too.

(Message edited by corkirish on November 24, 2010)

I don't beleive I've ever heard innealtóir used to describe a train driver.

"Also called locomotive engineer. Railroads . a person who operates or is in charge of a locomotive."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/engineer

Seems to be American usage.

No, I've never heard of a locomotive engineer. I assumed that Paploo was referring to 1) an engineer who designed a train engine; and 2) a civil engineer - both of whom are innealtóir.

I would suggest "locomotive engineer" for a train driver is bad English - to be lumped in with those absurd job titles such as Floor Cleaning Executive for a floor cleaner...

No, I've never heard of "innealtóir" being used for a train driver.

quote:

I would suggest "locomotive engineer" for a train driver is bad English - to be lumped in with those absurd job titles such as Floor Cleaning Executive for a floor cleaner...

Well, you could argue that an engineer is someone who works around engines, so . . .

In American English the word "Engineer" as one who operates an engine (a train engine or locomotive) is commonly used at least in the railroad. I have no proof of this but I thought this word was used as far back as the mid 1800s which I also think outdates the use of the word as a designer.

Personally the design engineer was the first word I heard as its what I went to school for but when I started working for the railroad I began to hear the word engineer as the operator of a train engine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_engineer

quote:

In the United States, Canada, and New Zealand, train drivers are known as "locomotive engineers". In the United Kingdom, South Africa, and Australia, they are known as "train drivers", "engine drivers", "locomotive drivers", or "locomotive operators".

1350–1400; engine + -eer; r. ME engin ( e ) our < AF engineor OF engigneor < ML ingeniātor, equiv. to ingeniā ( re ) to design, devise (v. deriv. of ingenium; see engine) + L -tor -tor


We engineers are an ingenious bunch.

(I've heard of train driver being called engineer, but only in US usage.)

quote:

I have no proof of this but I thought this word was used as far back as the mid 1800s which I also think outdates the use of the word as a designer.

If you mean predates, I believe you are wrong; Stephenson was an engineer before he ever built a locomotive....

I think Aonghus is a software engineer.

Fair enough. Now I know.

Also, now I know that innealtóir refers to someone who designs and the person who drives the train would be oibreoir traein?

Tiománaí traenach.

Go raibh maith agat

quote:

I think Aonghus is a software engineer.

I think so too. (I call myself an "Innealtóir Bogearraí" usually)

So if I design signal systems on the railroad I could call myself an "Innealtóir Comhartha"?

I guess this would be the literal translation but would it be said a different way in Irish?

My instinct would be to say "innealtóir comharthaíochta" (signalling engineer)

http://www.focal.ie/Search.aspx?term=signalling

"Comhartha" could mean a sign rather than a signal.

Aonghus' version sounds best, but by the way (dáltha an scéil), comhartha would be comharthaí in the genitive plural. Innealtóir comhartha literally means "engineer of a (one) sign"

In Corca Dhuibhne:

comharthaí - singular

comharthaithe - plural

The noun "engineer" in the U.S. can mean someone who applies her or his theoretical background in physics, chemistry, computer science, etc. to the design or improvement of machines, software, etc. But the same word also applies to a person who has, through trade school and experience, the necessary skills and ability to operate or control a system or device. The example of a train engineer is probably the most obvious, but the term applies to a wide range of areas, for example a boiler engineer. That's a person who is very skilled, licensed and certified to operate and control thermal systems. The list goes on...

A few years ago the media was promoting the notion that India and China is graduating many times more engineers than in the U.S. and that we engineers in the States might become extinct. But... then it was disclosed (not by the media because they're off to their next piece of "journalism") that the term "engineer" in China or India can have different meanings, much like it does in the States.

I wonder who engineered that particular story....

I'm going to call myself a "translation engineer" from now on. It sounds so much sexier than plain old "translator", don't you think?

text engineer

Nach é sin an teideal atá bronnta oraibh pé scéal é in the Small Department of Moving Matters Around?

Innealtóirí atá ag Folús na Gaeilge don bhfoclóir pé scéal é!

http://www.gaelport.com/sonrai-nuachta?NewsItemID=3479

quote:

Innealtóir Grád II (Eagarthóir), triúr Innealtóir Grád III (Eagarthóirí Cúnta),

quote:

Nach é sin an teideal atá bronnta oraibh pé scéal é in the Small Department of Moving Matters Around?

Ní hé ach "Funeral Removal Technicians", ;)

Is ea, mar státseirbhíseach, "innealtóir" do shaghas éigint is ea me; tá sé i dteideal an phoist sa scálaí tuarastail. Ní cuimhin liom cé acu ceann é. Tá druil láimhe agam ach níl castaire ná rinse ná scriúire im sheilbh agam . . .

Agus dúirt Stailín gurbh é Ailín innealtóir na n-anam....

quote:

Agus dúirt Stailín gurbh é Ailín innealtóir na n-anam....

??? Níl cearc Shíneach agam . . .

Cearc Shíneach?

[Dúirt Stailín gurbh iad na healaíontóirí innealtóirí na n-anam. Droch imeartas focail]

I haven't a Chinese hen = I haven't a clucking fu.

Ceann maith.

quote:

Seems to be American usage. ... I would suggest "locomotive engineer" for a train driver is bad English - to be lumped in with those absurd job titles such as Floor Cleaning Executive for a floor cleaner...

What, you've never heard the folk song, "Monkey and the Engineer"?

[By the way, the use is quite natural English and a reasonable development with the suffix -eer : one that is concerned with professionally, conducts, or produces auctioneer, pamphleteer —often in words with derogatory meaning profiteer. By the way, on the opposite end, I've never heard of a train engineer as a train driver. Dialects ...]


Once upon a time there was an engineer
Drove a locomotive both far and near
Accompanied by a monkey who would sit on his stool
Watching everything the engineer would move

One day the engineer wanted a bite to eat
He left the monkey sittin' on the driver's seat
The monkey pulled the throttle, locomotive jumped the gun
And did ninety miles an hour down the main line run

Chorus:
Big locomotive right on time
Big locomotive comin' down the line
Big locomotive number ninety-nine
Left the engineer with a worried mind

The Engineer called up the dispatcher on the phone
Tell him all about his locomotive was gone
Get on the wire, switch operator to write
Cause the monkey's got the main line sewed up tight

Switch operator got the message on time
Said, there's a northbound livin' on the same main line
Open up the switch, I'm gonna let her through the hole
Cause the monkey's got the locomotive under control

Try singing that after eight pints . . .

An-ghreannmhar!! An bhfuil rannta ar iarraidh? Cad a tharla don traein ina dhiaidh sin? Ar tugadh post buan don mhoncaí? Chreidfinn gur bata is bóthar a fuair an boc eile.

Sin uile. Críochnaíonn an t-amhrán leis an churfá agus Left the engineer with a worried mind arís cupla uair. Is ceann greannmhar é sin.

The monkey went on to enjoy a glittering career in Anglo-Irish Bank . . .

Engineering triple credit default swapped collateralised debt obligations with bananas on the side. A lot of monkey business!

quote:

Engineering triple credit default swapped collateralised debt obligations

That's your homework for tonight there, Seán. Away you go and translate that into Irish for us . . .

Ana shimplí: Goid!