I'm doing a CV in Irish and can't figure out how to say references available on request at the end of the C.V. Thanks in advance.

Teistiméireachtaí ar fáil ar iarratas.

http://www.focal.ie/Search.aspx?term=teistim%C3%A9ireacht&lang=2

Aonghus can you refresh my memory of whether there is any difference between "ar fáil" and "le fáil"? Are both right? Or is "le fáil" wrong? Or are they different in meaning and usage? Thanks.

Good question.
I'm not sure.

http://www.potafocal.com/Search.aspx?Text=f%C3%A1il

Michal says they are synonymous.

It may come down to idiolect, ie the speaker's preference. I have a document that I can search of Mo Sgéal Féin+Séadna+St Matthew's Gospel, by PUL, and "le fáil" appears 28 times. It also occurs 3 times in the first 15 chapters of Niamh. But I can't find one instance of PUL saying "ar fáil". It would be interesting to know if it is dialectal or idiolectal.

Perhaps

A search of the Nua-Chorpas gives
"ar fáil" # Amais: 19883
"le fáil" # Amais: 7227

And no clear dialect correlation with either term.

Are the works in the nua-chorpas exclusively by native speakers? I am not trying to be controversial or raise the same old-same old, but clearly if works by fluent learners are included, then the distribution in the nua-chorpas won't be a guide to anything. They may be all by native speakers - my knowledge of the Corpus is not sufficient to know.

They're pretty much the same thing and can be used in similar situations. Interestingly, though, in my own notes, all of the examples of "le fáil" come from Amhlaoibh Ó Luínse and Donnchadh Shéamuis Ó Drisceoil bar one from Peaidí Maoileoin and one from Breandán Mac Gearailt. All of the examples of "ar fáil" come from Breandán Mac Gearailt bar one from Domhnall Mac Síthigh, one from Donnchadh Shéamuis Ó Drisceoil and one from Mícheál Ó Sé. Not exactly scientific but interesting nonetheless.

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Are the works in the nua-chorpas exclusively by native speakers?

I think the Nua-Chorpas indicates when the source is from a non-native speaker but contains a mixture of native and non-native sources. I don't wish to be controversial either but I think as a rule that native sources must take precedence over learners. I often see people quoting Google and Foinse, Gaelscéal etc on here and elsewhere but most of the examples given are unlikely to be from good Gaeltacht speakers. That's not to say the examples are incorrect or inaccurate or unworthy of study but one would need to verify whether a strong native Gaeltacht speaker would use such forms. There are a lot of expressions used in Dublin for example which arose through the misunderstanding of learners. "Coinníollacha oibre" in the sense of "working conditions" i.e. the state, circumstances, quality of the environment under which one works is a good example of that. "Coinníollacha", of course, means conditions in the sense of rules and conditions - stipulations.

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Are the works in the nua-chorpas exclusively by native speakers

No. Where the status of the speaker is known it is given for the individual entry. There is a bar chart of native/non native/not known given for the terms.

Tabharfar teistiméireachtaí ach iad a iarraidh = references available on request

I see potafocal, an excellent site by the way, has for "working conditions", dálaí oibre.

This dálaí is meant to be the plural of dála, but isn't dála (or dálta/dáltha as it would be in Cork Irish) already feminine plural? It should be the fpl of dáil.

Would dáltha oibre make sense?

GRMA a Aonghus agus a Charmanach

I don't have Ó Donaill to hand, but I believe these are different words.

http://www.potafocal.com/Search.aspx?Text=d%C3%A1la

different words in the modern language, Aonghus, but the same word etymologically. Dáil is the singular and dáltha (or dála) the plural. But dáltha may be felt to be singular today and a plural dálaí backformed from it.

Ná háirimh é, a Guevara.

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This dálaí is meant to be the plural of dála, but isn't dála (or dálta/dáltha as it would be in Cork Irish) already feminine plural? It should be the fpl of dáil.

Well, Ó Dónaill gives "dálaí" as the regular plural of "dáil" but the form "dála" in certain expressions such "Mo dhála féin" and "Dála Sheáin, tá speilp ar Shíle" etc. This brings another expression to mind, one emanating from the misunderstanding of learners: "Cosúil le Seán, tá speilp ar Shíle". This would appear to be a calque of "Like Seán, Sile is wealthy" but as we know the "like" here is actually "As is the case with, as with . . . " and not "resembling, physically looking like". This misunderstanding on the part of learners has spread, probably via school teachers, and I've even heard it on Raidió na Gaeltachta. You'll often hear learners say "Cosúil liomsa!" for "Like me!" instead of "Mo dhála féin go díreach".

Ach is cúinsí oibre atá faoi chaibidil anseo.

An bhfuil dála == cúinsí ag an Dálach, dála an scéil?

Dónall's dictionary has: dála gine Chríost, the circumstances attending Christ's conception, meaning 8a).

There is an EU site saying that dála oibre is the correct phrase for working conditions. See http://www.eionet.europa.eu/gemet/concept?langcode=ga&cp=9369

I would rather stick with dálta /dɑ:lhə/ myself, but clearly nearly everyone else has a different opinion from mine! I get used it. My shoulders are broad!

Well, in terms of the CO, Ó Dónaill has the final word, so "dálaí oibre" in the CO.

Yes, it would appear that "dál(t)(h)a" is the form used in the south.

"Cúinsí" appears to be similar in meaning to "dálta" but "cúinse" can also mean "pretext".

Dinneen agrees with David that dála in this meaning is already plural.

http://glg.csisdmz.ul.ie/index.php?find_simple=Irish&src=D%C3%81IL

in pl dála al dálta, dáltha conditions, news, espousals, etc

I'm not disagreeing with any of that but merely telling you what Ó Dónaill has. Focal.ie follows the same usage: dálaí as the regular plural, dála as a special plural in expressions like "Dála Sheáin, tá Séamas beo bocht". Of course "dála" can also be used as a singular in expressions like "Is é an dála céanna againn ar fad é". I'm speaking of the CO, you understand, not the dialects.

Ailín, there is an interesting word urdhálta, clearly used as a singular noun.

urdhálta, f. (u:'ɑlhə) the exact same condition. B'shiné an údhálta agam-sa agus ag an sgríbhinn a fuaras ó'n mnaoi uasail úd, that is exactly how it was with me and the writing I got from that lady.

The above quote is from Mo Sgéal Féin.

I was very unsure on the pronunciation, but the simplified spelling edition of MSF by Shán Ó Cuív indicated the pronunciation, as above.

I suppose it is a difficult hair to split - whether the circumstance consists of one thing or several.

Does Ó Dónaill list "Dálaí Oibre"?

No, Ó Dónaill does not list "dálaí oibre", but it does say the plural is dála only in some phrases. But it does list "dála gine Chríost", although the meaning of dála meaning "circumstances" is also marked "lit." That would mean that whether you said dála or dálaí it would still be a literary usage, as the use of this word in this meaning is indicated as literary. There are no examples given of dálaí meaning circumstances, and the offical EU site I mentioned above is from a subsidiary of the European Environmental Agency, and lists the term "working conditions" in all official languages of the EU. I think it likely that translators in Brussels have decided that dála oibre is the correct term, in line with the dála gine Chríost literary usage in Ó Dónaill.

I googled round that site. Dála oibre is part of the GEneral Multilingual Environmental Thesaurus, which is described as "a new edition of GEMET, being the reference vocabulary of the European Environment Agency (EEA) and its Network (Eionet)". http://www.eionet.europa.eu/gemet/about?langcode=en

That doesn't mean to say everything in it is right, though...

As I said before both Ó Dónaill and focal.ie give "dálaí" as the normal plural, so clearly "dálaí" is the normal plural in the CO.

As for "dált(h)a" being purely literary, that can hardly be true, can it? It's still used in speech in CD.

Well Ó Dónaill lists:

8a) in the meaning of circumstances as literary, eg dála gine Chríost
8b) in the meaning of as regards, concerning as literary, eg dála Oscair
8c) mo dhála fein, dála an scéil: not listed as literary
8d) "pl form as sg m" not listed as literary, eg is é an dála céanna agamsa é
8e) also not listed as literary, dálaí in the meaning of "data"

Make of that what you will!

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As I said before both Ó Dónaill and focal.ie give "dálaí" as the normal plural, so clearly "dálaí" is the normal plural in the CO.

The normal plural of "Dáil"?

I think that is where the misunderstanding arises; I thought there was a separate entry Dála.

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Make of that what you will!

Fair enough.

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I think that is where the misunderstanding arises; I thought there was a separate entry Dála.

No. The dictionary entry is "dáil".

Faoi na dálaí sin, tuigim dála na ceiste. Maith agat as do shaíocht a dháileadh orainn agus tú ag glacadh sos ó dhálaí chasta na dála! Dála an scéil, bhraith muid uainn do ghrinneas aréir...

Nil a bhuíochas ort, a chara. Nílim ag obair inniu mar go bhfuil slaghdán trom orm. Ag casachtaigh is ag sraothartaigh ó mhaidean. Bhíos breoite aréir, leis, sin an taobh ná rabhas ag an gciorcal.

Go raibh biseach luath agus iomlán ort!

Imigh sa leabaidh, a Ailín, agus ná bí ag tógaint ceisteanna ar an nGaelainn agus iad do fhreagairt!

Cá bhfios duit nach sa leaba atá sé, cromtha thar a ríomhaire glúine?

Is maith an aclaíocht intinne chun aird a tharraingt ón gcolainn agus a cholanna.

'sea anois, a Aonghus, más sa leabaidh atá sé, ní ceart dó a bheith ar a chromadh thar an ríomhaire, agus gan a dhícheall a dhéanamh chun dul a choladh!

Do bhí slaghdán trom orm le déanaí, agus mé ag aiseag cúpla uair sa lá, agus donas an scéil ar fad, is ar éigin a dh'ithinn aon bhia, ach ar a shon san, do chuireadh mo cholann d'fhiachaibh orm aiseag a dhéanamh gan rud ar bith le scéith uaim.

Ach táimse go maith anois, agus do bhuail an taom breoiteachta im aigne cé chomh tábhachtach agus atá an sláinte, agus cé chomh breá is ea bheith id shláinte!

:o)

when you say "how important", the CO has cé chomh tábhachtach, but I have never found this construction in PUL and it is not mentioned in Myles Dillon's Teach Yourself Irish.

In Matthew's Gospel, Matthew 6:23, PUL has:

quote:

Ach má bhíonn do shúil go h‑olc beidh do chorp go léir gan solus. Agus má’s ionan agus doircheacht an solus atá ionat, cad é méid na doircheachta féin?

The English is "how great is that darkness".

I am thinking that "how important health is" could be not just "cé chomh tábhachtach atá an sláinte", but also "cad í tábhachtaí an tsláinte".

The difficulty is that Myles Dillon's book has many holes in it - lacunae, things not covered. I actually went to talk to the children in Cúil Aodha primary school, and I made a fool of myself with limited Irish, but they knew I had lived in China, and asked me "cé chomh te" it was there - a construction I had never heard before and struggled to understand at the time.

Any thoughts? I am benefiting hugely from this site and greatly for all the replies I have got!

Are you making a statement or asking a question when you use "how important"?

An Bíobla Naofa translates that verse as:

23 Ach má bhíonn do shúil tinn, beidh do chorp ar fad sa dorchadas. Mar sin, má bhíonn an solas atá ionat ina dhorchadas, nach mór é an dorchadas é sin!


So I'd be inclined to say something like

Is/Nach tábhachtach í an sláinte

as a statement

and

Cén tábhacht atá le sláinte

as a question

Aonghus, are you and Ailín part of the same Irish circle? How many people turn up to your meetings? I see in Cork there are meetings one evening a week at the library, but apparently not well attended.

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Aonghus, are you and Ailín part of the same Irish circle? How many people turn up to your meetings?

We meet at a fortnightly circle which sees between four and twenty people turning up. Mostly fluent speakers.

Between 4 and 20 - well at least there is always someone to talk to!

Potafocal has "a thábhachtaí" as "how important": Is é an rud is mó a théann i bhfeidhm orm le linn an agallaimh ná a thábhachtaí atá a muintir d’Étaoin.

I have examples of "cé chomh [adjective] is atá X" from Breandán Mac Gearailt and Mícheál Ó Sé, both fine speakers.

Other ways of saying "How hot was it there?":

Cad é an teas a bhí ann?
Cé méid teasa a bhí ann?
An teas mór a bhí ann?

and perhaps

Cá theocht ann é?

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I am thinking that "how important health is" could be not just "cé chomh tábhachtach atá an sláinte", but also "cad í tábhachtaí an tsláinte".

"an sláinte"? Is sláinte masculine in WM? You wouldn't say "cad í tábhachtaí an tsláinte" but "cad í tábhacht na sláinte" or "Is tábhachtach an rud í an tsláinte" or "Tá tábhacht mhór leis an sláinte".

Oh! As you say, sláinte is feminine - I am not trying to start off a masculine trend...

I assume that teocht is CO. At least I found teo as a noun in Séadna:

Cad é an bheann a bhéadh aige siúd ar uisge te, agus a theó atá an áit as a dtáinig sé?, why would he give a damn about hot water, given the heat of the place he came from?

[talking about the Devil]

Although it is well within the bounds of possibility that teo and teocht are both found in WM as nouns.

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At least I found teo as a noun in Séadna:

I would have said that "a theó agus atá an áit" is an adjectival usage.

You certainly couldn't put teocht into that sentence.

Aonghus, I probably misunderstood the grammar. I thought the "a" was possessive, and it was "its heat". I am now wondering what the "a" is.

how

a [mír chéime]
mír chéime (a ghéire atá sé, ar a dhéanaí).

I see! It is hard learning a language with no good textbooks - Dillon's teach yourself Irish is so awkward to use. I am not saying that "a" as how is definitely not in the book, but the information is scattered in such a scatter-brained way throughout the book, it would be difficult to find! Thanks for clearing that up!

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I would have said that "a theó agus atá an áit" is an adjectival usage.

You certainly couldn't put teocht into that sentence.

Not true! "dá theocht/a theocht atá an áit".

a = particle used with abstract nouns denoting degree

Aonghus, on page 1 of Dinneen's dictionary, under "a" as a possessive particle, it leads me to believe this "a" meaning "however" is the possessive particle. There is definitely no separate entry for an "a" meaning "how". But the possessive particle is used in "agus a líonmhaire is mar bhíodar" given in entry - seeing how numerous they were.

I am sure you're right that it is a separate word now, meaning "how", and in the example above "a theo" qualifies "an áit", so it if it was possessive, there would be a problem to explain why it was "a theo" and not "a teo". It makes more sense to view it as a leniting particle meaning "how", but that entry in Dinneen's seems to indicate that the derivation is from the possessive particle.

I haven't got Ó Dónaill's dictionary with me right now, but I want to look into this!

Ailín, are you saying this "a" is the same as "dá"?

Dinneen's under dá has "de+neuter prolep. poss. prn. a", so the derivation is from the possessive particle, but seen as neuter (thus explaining lenition on all nouons), and "proleptic" meaning a superfluous pronoun that relates to something coming after...

Mhol sé a fheabhas a chruthaíodar = He praised them on how well they had done

Dá fheabhas a chruthaíodar ní raibh sé sásta = no matter how well they performed, he wasn't happy

GGBC has more info on this.

Aonghus, I just checked, and Dinneen's does list "teo" as a noun. I am sure "a theo" is using teo as a noun. It is quite a job to develop a full understanding of how Irish pieces itself together grammatically and I am not there yet!

Ailín, you do not accept "cad í tábhachtaí" but do accept "cad í tábhacht". I hadn't thought too deeply about it before, but I have realised that these comparatives in -aí used as abstract nouns are only used after "a" or "dá" (a thábhachtaí, dá thábhachtaí).

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but I have realised that these comparatives in -aí used as abstract nouns are only used after "a" or "dá" (a thábhachtaí, dá thábhachtaí).

Precisely!

It's called ainm teibí céime and you can read more about it in GGBC.

I've always thought of it as ar fáil:- 'available' and
le fáil:- 'to be got'. Good chance they are interchangeable obviously.

Sameish story with le díol and ar díol.