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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (November-December) » Archive through November 17, 2010 » Object of transitive action « Previous Next »

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Corkirish
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Username: Corkirish

Post Number: 52
Registered: 10-2010
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2010 - 06:52 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

The nualeargais grammar (by Lars) says:

quote:

After a noun that denotes a transitive action, always the object of the action takes the the genitive, not its subject: grá Dé = the love for God (not: the love of God! In German the form "die Liebe Gottes" would more mean the latter!)



I am not sure about this, and don't know whether Lars found this in a grammar book, or surmised this point himself.

In Peadar ua Laoghaire's translation of Imitatio Christi (Aithris ar Chríost), we read:

quote:

Is deimhin nách briathra doimhne a dheineann naomh ná fíoraon de dhuine; ach gur beatha mhaith a tharraingeann grádh Dé ar dhuine.



The CCEL translation of the Imitatio Christi (from the Latin, not from the Irish, of course) says:

quote:

Indeed it is not learning that makes a man holy and just, but a virtuous life makes him pleasing to God.



I don't know what the original Latin of this passage said, but there is a problem if "grá Dé" has to mean "love for God" and not "God's love". It is worth querying this grammatical point in the Nualeargais grammar. I would conclude that the Irish could mean either, and that the context would determine the meaning.

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Eadaoin
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Username: Eadaoin

Post Number: 87
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2010 - 07:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

perhaps it's the English here that's a "problem" (or have I misunderstood the point being made?)

the Gifts of the Holy Spirit include "fear of the Lord"
... it's not the Lord's fear

and in the old song "he died for love of Barbara Allen"
not Barbara Allen's love of someone

eadaoin

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10671
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2010 - 10:07 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Dineen lists Gráḋ Dé (Dia) as Charity. Ó Dónaill has "grá dia" as charity, but Grá Dé as love of God, and Aos Grá Dé as a literary phrase for God's chosen ones.

So there appears to be some ambiguity.

However,in the example you gave above the sentence is clear that God is the bestower of the love which the person has drawn upon himself by leading a virtuous life.



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