When listening to native speakers, I notice a pretty consistent refusal to pronounce two vowels in a row across words. They blend or choose one somehow. They even do this in English. Instead of saying "the other" they might say "t'other".

How do they decide which vowel to pronounce? if you ask them, they claim to be pronouncing everything so I think it's entirely unconscious.

This is called vowel elision and also vowel sandhi by some people.

The general rules are:

1. When two neutral (schwa) vowels meet, they are pronounced as one.
2. A neutral vowel will give way to another vowel.

There are other instances. One instance that comes to mind is cé acu pronounced like cacu. I've heard people say rud instead of rudaí.

Keep in mind that people disagree about how to write some of these. Some people write them out phonetically, some people put in apostrophes, and some people use the standard spelling. Also keep in mind whether the meaning will be compromised by an elision. General if it is, like in the case of some declensions, then it usually is kept, and some other euphonic solution is used.

As for self-awareness, I can understand this. I elide stuff all the time, I am sure. I probably don't realize it 99.99% of the time. That's what's hard about learning Irish! This even happens with audiobooks sometimes! But we also have to learn the common elision patterns if we want to have fluent Irish. I just write them down whenever I hear or see (in phonetic spelling) a common pattern, and reproduce them when speaking (or at least try).

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I've heard people say rud instead of rudaí.

???

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How do they decide which vowel to pronounce? if you ask them, they claim to be pronouncing everything so I think it's entirely unconscious.

Actually, when a word ends with a neutral vowel sound (written -a or -e) and the next begins with a vowel sound, I think most of the time it is the neutral vowel (-a or -e) which is dropped. I don't think you can drop the first vowel of a word. And usually I'd say you don't drop final vowel sounds except the "neutral" ones ie. -a and -e.

But I'd need to think more about examples, because I drop vowels naturally - learnt it by listening to native speakers.

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But I'd need to think more about examples, because I drop vowels naturally - learnt it by listening to native speakers.

Me too. Lughaidh is right about the final neutral vowel being the one to go and not that of the oncoming word. I think all of the monographs have a section on elision. Elision can also occur between two consonants of the same quality.

Here is a little chart I wrote on this:

1. neutral + neutral = neutral
2. long + neutral = long
3. neutral + short = short
4. neutral + long = long

The neutral vowel is the unstressed vowel usually is the central part of the mouth. There are minor variations, but in general a schwa.

There are exceptions, so note them when you come across them!

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I don't think you can drop the first vowel of a word.

Well number two shows a drop, but I think it would have to be a word like anois, etc., at least when multisyllabic words follow.

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???

Sorry, I wrote that wrong. I meant ruda. I have heard this in s phrase like an cineál sin X, in which X in the genitive will have the ending cut off at the end of a sentence or phrase. Not the same as the posters question, but a case of elision that is not expected from a learner.

An cineál sin rud' = an cineál sin ruda.
An cineál sin flaithiúlacht' = an cineál sin flaithiúlachta.

Etc.

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1. neutral + neutral = neutral
2. long + neutral = long
3. neutral + short = short
4. neutral + long = long

2. Not quite! "cúrsaí anois, amháin etc." - neutral vowel retained.

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Sorry, I wrote that wrong. I meant ruda. I have heard this in s phrase like an cineál sin X, in which X in the genitive will have the ending cut off at the end of a sentence or phrase. Not the same as the posters question, but a case of elision that is not expected from a learner.

An cineál sin rud' = an cineál sin ruda.
An cineál sin flaithiúlacht' = an cineál sin flaithiúlachta.

I think that may be confined to Galway, especially for nouns ending in -(e)acht. I'm not sure I would call that "elision", though, if "rud" and "flaithiúlacht" no longer change their forms anyway in the genitive.

I'm thinking that what you say of "cineál" might be analagous to the use of "sórt" and "saghas" in Corca Dhuibhne. When used in a indefinite general sense, a following noun is left in the nomintive: saghas bád is ea é, sórt bád is ea é, etc.

As for "cineál", I suspect that it is a rare enough word down south. I can't find a single example in my own notes (652 pages) nor in Gaeilge CD.

Learners almost never use elision of either vowels or consonants and can get confused when confronted by examples of same.

A friend of mine sent me the following proverb which he heard from a Corca Dhuibhne man on R na G the other day and couldn't figure out what the final few words meant:

"Is mór an trua an ainnir in do leaba ina luigh (luí?) léi féin ach slipire seanduine ina haice is ní hádh le hé"

The final few words are obviously "Ní háil léithi é". In the last few words we have both consonant elision and vowel elision in "ní háil léithi é". Consonant elision of the two l's, when "áil" and "léithi" come together, and vowel elision when the final i in léithi is elided before the oncoming stressed vowel in é.

An bhfuil "is sa bhreis ansin?


Is mór an trua an ainnir in do leaba ina luigh (luí?) léi féin ach slipire seanduine ina haice is ní háil leithe é?

Cuireann an "do" mearbhall orm freisin.

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An bhfuil "is sa bhreis ansin?

?????????

is = agus

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Cuireann an "do" mearbhall orm freisin.

Dearúd ag an té a dh'airigh, nó neach cé acu, cá bhfios cad é athá ar chúl an tseanará so?

Bheadh ciall leis dá mbeadh sé ag maíomh, dá olcas é an ainnir a bheith ag luí léi féin, go mba mheasa aici é agus seanduine cam ag luí léi.

Go raibh maith agat as na míniúcháin.

There is no mention of vowel elision or vowel sandhi in any of the beginning Irish books I have.

Another surprise: my two teachers, both of whom learned Irish as adults in Donegal, are actively opposed to analyzing Irish and trying to describe the language in terms of patterns and rules. The Donegal courses teach students not to think about the language, but just to use it.

I think usage is good, but if I can save a ton of memorization by finding a few good patterns, why not do that?

Killelea,
There is something to be said about getting immersed. I never did the kind of analyzing that I do with Irish with Spanish or German. We just spoke and learned the general grammar. Since you have teachers, you can favor the immersion part much more since you'll learn the rules in a passive way. Plus I would recommend more immersion on the beginning level with more analysis as you improve. You have to have a good foundation to jump off (or sink down) into the minutiae.