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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (November-December) » Archive through November 05, 2010 » Starting a Conversation in the Gaeltacht « Previous Next »

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Seánw
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Username: Seánw

Post Number: 805
Registered: 07-2009


Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 03:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

I've seen comments here and there about a reluctance of certain people in the Gaeltacht to speak Irish to others who are visitors. This is not ill will, but may be because the visitor doesn't speak well, or it would be easier to converse in English, or just because you are not a local perhaps. Anyone who's been to the Gaeltacht and broached conversations, do you have any tips for this? Thanks.

I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.

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Sneachta
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Username: Sneachta

Post Number: 57
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 04:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Iv also heard these stories, so i guess it happens. Iv also heard that some locals also feel that the learners may have better Irish than they do. I know people who dislike this and take offence when greeted or replied to in english , i havent felt that way ... they are people like me with their own opinons , so if they choose to speak to me in english who am i to argue. As well as that i dont have to go to a Gaeltacht to speak Irish. Tips,, speak Irish if you so wish , if there are any misunderandings solve them through Irish or return to english ,, if answered in english when you have used Irish ,,you have to make your own choice in that case ... as i dont believe there is ant template. But i personally try to focas on the bigger picture of how great a time iv had as opposed to a conversation here or there that didnt work out.

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Abigail
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Username: Abigail

Post Number: 1286
Registered: 06-2006


Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 04:22 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

You must start with a comment on the weather... and not just any comment on the weather!

(Chuir do cheist an aiste seo i gcuimhne dom: http://www.ballinagree.freeservers.com/labrea.html )

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Sineadw
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Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 528
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 04:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Yep, the weather thing is as true in English as it is in Irish really! It always breaks the ice. Something like 'nach aisteach an aimsir í...' which is relevant most days here! It leaves it open to continue yourself or let the other person comment.

An obvious one is in the pub. You can order your drink in Irish and make sure and stand near enough one of the people at the bar. Even though there is a big chance the barperson doesn't speak Irish the local will always pick up on it and will talk to you first to acknowledge you/be polite. If they don't speak to you first you can try and gauge whether or not they are the friendly type and then say both 'how are you, cé chaoi bhfuil tú' which shows immediately you'd like to speak in Irish but that you speak English normally so they are not left in the position of wondering if you are from the place or not!

This is great if you are on your own cause you can sit down and continue with the conversation and can drink the pint as fast or slow as you want.

An ideal place and especially if you are a tourist is the beach. On a good enough day you will probably meet some strollers you can easily say hello to, either in the carpark or out walking, and then tell them you are visiting, and ask about a particular place/attraction/restaurant etc. that you heard about and ask them for any other recommendations, if they are friendly.

A great place is on the bus heading out to Conamara or the Gaeltacht area. Sit up the front and as the driver is usually from Conamara himself you could be having a bit of a chat with him and others will get on the bus along the route and you will hear them talking to the bus driver and you can add in your own contribution when you get the chance.

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3672
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 06:06 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

Even though there is a big chance the barperson doesn't speak Irish



Gabh toigh Hiúdaí Bhig ar a' Bhun Bheag nó toigh McGeady's i nDún Lúiche :-)

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 375
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 07:03 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

The first thing is to find where the local pub is! If you like going to the pub, as most people in Ireland do, make sure you sit up at the bar if you're on your own or even with a friend. It's much easier to chat to people at the bar or to people coming up to order drinks than if you sit way back in the corner. Just a friendly "Heileó" or "Tá lán na lámh ansan agat!" (You have your hands full there!) or "Cogar, mbíonn aon cheol anso istoíche?" (Come here, do they have any music here in the evenings?) or something equally casual helps to break the ice. The art of smalltalk is one acquired over many a pint of Guinness and cannot be learned over night! Also, religion and politics are a complete no no if you're talking to some stranger you've just met in a bar (are you listening Seán Whittle?!). Also you're on to a winner if you let them do must of the talking. I've only ever had one bad experience in a pub in Corca Dhuibhne but the guy involved is a well known nutcase in the area anyway so nobody takes any notice of him!

A final word of caution on Irish pubs: some people get drunk and become very placid and calm and docile and even nod off to sleep. Others who are normally ok become really paranoid when drunk and think someone is either chatting up their wife/girlfriend or taking the piss out of them. A lot of fights break out that way. Sad but true. Anyway, relax, don't shoot your mouth off and you'll be grand.

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 376
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 07:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

One more thing, I generally speak English to someone I don't know on first meeting them unless I know that they either can speak Irish or want to do so. Some people might not want to speak Irish and feel under pressure when spoken to in Irish, especially by "stróinséirí". That's fine by me. I'm not in the business of proselytising to people especially since I'm neither a native Irish speaker or from the locality. I think it best to gauge the situation beforehand before asking something in Irish.

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Seánw
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Username: Seánw

Post Number: 806
Registered: 07-2009


Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 07:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

A final word of caution on Irish pubs: some people get drunk and become very placid and calm and docile and even nod off to sleep. Others who are normally ok become really paranoid when drunk and think someone is either chatting up their wife/girlfriend or taking the piss out of them. A lot of fights break out that way.


Yeah, I had an experience like that in Galway once in which someone was just starring at me with a mean look. The problem went away, but I don't know what liquid dream he was having. (Of course, this is common anywhere alcohol is drunk.) On the other end, I've met many a nice person in pubs. I've even heard Irish spoken, but at the time didn't have anything to say except go raibh maith agat and conas tá tú!

Good info. Keep sharing if anyone has more!

I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 377
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 07:54 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

I had an experience about ten years ago, I think, in a pub in Corca Dhuibhne during one of the foot and mouth disease outbreaks. Me and friend were in the area for a few days and headed in for a pint. Anyway, this big mountainy fellow, who looked like he ate barbed wire and silage every day for breakfast, sitting over in the far corner and he looking daggers at the two of us! Then he gets up and walks half way across the bar and stops. At this stage I was looking at my friend and thinking "Right, maybe now is a good time to leave?". He nodded. But just as we were about to leg it, your man walks out the door! Sighs of relief all round.

Another point worth mentioning is that one needs to be careful about who you approach to have a friendly chat with in a pub. Sometimes one can be over friendly. Some people just don't like any Tom, Dick or Harry siding up to them and trying to engage in smalltalk. Which is fair enough. We've all had days when you just feel like telling people to piss off. Others don't like having their personal space invaded by strangers, however well-meaning. I've seen people flare up over nothing either through drink or because someone was trying to engage them in inane banter. Be a good listener is the best advice I can give.

A word of advice to our American contributors: maybe I'm stereotyping people, but when I was in America I noticed that people were getting blind drunk after only a few pints whereas me and my friend were still coherent. I think we Irish people probably drink more on the whole than Americans. So knowing when to stop is a good thing to keep in mind. I remember being in the Isle of Barra in Scotland in 2004 at a céilí in the island hall and having people buying me pints all night because I was "An t-Èireannach" who was trying to speak to the locals in my woeful Gaelic. Anyway, not wanting to be impolite, I downed God knows how many pints - and then the whiskies. No, not a good idea at all! Beer and whiskey/spirits never mix!

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Seánw
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Username: Seánw

Post Number: 807
Registered: 07-2009


Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 08:08 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

But then there is the whole culture of buying a round, which is not common where I live. To each their own here. My wife's cousins were very generous, and I couldn't keep up. I didn't want to be rude to them, and I didn't know them well at the time. Just watch out for that item, because once your in, it may be hard to get out!

I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3673
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 08:32 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

I downed God knows how many pints - and then the whiskies. No, not a good idea at all! Beer and whiskey/spirits never mix!



And all that ended ins an ghuthán mhór bhán. LOL

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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Carmanach
Member
Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 378
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 08:36 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Well, if you're in a large group, say 8 + don't feel under pressure to buy everybody a drink. Group dynamics will always mean that you end up chatting with a smaller subgroup of two, three or four people. Buy them a round and then each of them in your subgroup will get the next round and so on for the rest of the evening.

Anyway, rounds are a fact of life in Ireland and there's no way around them. I have to be honest, I'm always suspicious of people who say they're just buying for themselves and not for the others in the group. Seems anti-social or just plain stingy to me.

I think the southern Europeans, in particular, find the system of rounds in Ireland quite bewildering. I naturally ask my companions on heading to the bar what they will have to drink. I pity the Italians though. You can see the confusion in their faces! "You buy us drink, yes? But we must pay, no?" I say no of course not, it's my pleasure, get the drinks, and then we all sit down. "You are so kind. Thank you for the drinks". Anyway, when the drinks are all drunk, I sit back and wait for my Italian friends to offer me a drink in return. They sit rooted to the spot not quite knowing what to do! Then the penny drops: "Ah, so you want that we buy drink for you, now, yes?" Of course, Italians mostly drink and eat at the same time and while they have bars they are more like our cafés. I must say, I do like the Italian custom of serving each beer with platters of nuts or olives or dices of cheese at no extra charge. Yummy!

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Sineadw
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Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 529
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 08:38 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Yep and nothing disgusts people more than someone not getting their round in!

Carmanach is right about being careful about making smalltalk with someone. An old man in a pub near Ros a'Mhíl completely blanked me when I asked him 'cá as tú'. It wasn't perfect Irish and I was just after getting back to Irish but it was probably just that he was in bad form.

Actually that reminds me that night I was talking to a local who told me that 'cosán' shouldn't really be used for 'footpath' and that it means a pass for animals through the hills/mountains etc. If it was now I'd ask what word he'd have recommended for 'footpath'!

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Carmanach
Member
Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 379
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 08:48 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Of course another hazard encountered in Irish pubs is, ahem, that of certain greenhouse gas emissions emanating from the gastrointestinal region . . .

But I digress. It's time for bed.

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Carmanach
Member
Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 380
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 09:09 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

Carmanach is right about being careful about making smalltalk with someone. An old man in a pub near Ros a'Mhíl completely blanked me when I asked him 'cá as tú'. It wasn't perfect Irish and I was just after getting back to Irish but it was probably just that he was in bad form.



That's probably all it was, that or he was completely blotto!

quote:

Actually that reminds me that night I was talking to a local who told me that 'cosán' shouldn't really be used for 'footpath' and that it means a pass for animals through the hills/mountains etc. If it was now I'd ask what word he'd have recommended for 'footpath'!



Interesting. You need to bear in mind that Gaeltacht people really don't have any connection with the "official Irish" spoken in far off Dublin and are in all likelihood ignorant of newfangled terms used by penpushers like me in the Big Shmoke. In Corca Dhuibhne the normal word for "footpath" ("sidewalk" in America) is "fleaige" from the English "flag(stone)". Also, before the word "eitleán" had been coined for "aeroplane" people in CD had made up their own word "árthach spéarach": "sky vessel/boat". The normal word for "(motor-)car" in CD is "cairt" from English "cart" or "mótar". "Gluaisteán" and "carr" are understood but rarely used.

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 381
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 09:19 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

A final story before I hit the sack:

I remember asking a woman in Corca Dhuibhne about twelve years ago where the hostel was: "Cá bhfuil an brú?" says I. "HAHHH??" says she. "An brú. An t-óstallán?" says I. "Brú?? Óstallán??", says she. "Cad is "óstallán" ann? Ab é sin an Ghaelainn ar HAISTIL?"

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Taidhgín
Member
Username: Taidhgín

Post Number: 966
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 11:06 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Since I am close to the deich is trí scór I have plenty of experience trying to strike up a conversation with people I assumed to be Irish-speakers in the Gaeltacht.

One opener I had was to ask for directions in Irish. I learnt siar / aniar / thiar and ó thuaidh srl from that.

Another was to silently help an old man who was gathering sea-weed on a Conamara cladach. When he addressed me with gratitude I got a folcadh Gaeilge most of which I failed to understand. Nevertheless I picked up a few phrases and he got a bit more sea-weed gathered in a pile than he had expected.

My best plan was to avoid the lounge in the pub where all the visitors sat and stood at the bar just inside the door where the locals, shy of having to mix with strangers, would remain and soon enough would forget that I was not one of them and I could listen to my heart's content and best of all hear where the sean-nós sing-song was going to be held that night. Many's the time I ended up in somebody's house listening to local singers. I was always amazed at the ómós shown to the singers, everyone maintaining complete silence except for interjections of praise from older people at various points. Sometimes a person sitting beside the singer would wind his hand -- not necessarily in time to the music but as encouragement and to send messages of approval when a particular line or verse had been delivered well. They were memorable nights and I think I still have reel to reel recordings of some of them.

Only once was I rebuked for being present in the pub at all. When one of the locals spoke to me and discovered I had Irish he realised I could listen to him and all his neighbours for free and derive benefit from it. He railed at my having a good job in Dublin and them being poor.

Last yarn: Some locals in the pub were only too delighted to engage the visitor in conversation since there was the prospect of free drink. On one occasion I had bought my informant a pint but my own consumption was much slower than his and he had been looking at an almost empty glass for too long and I hadn't noticed. One of his neighbours teased him when buying a round himself saying: Níor chuir mé caidéis ar bith ort. Bhí tú ag fáil neart ansin.

I don't bother now. There are friends whom I visit annually and there are some parts of the "Gaeltacht" where there is no one to speak Irish to. Expensively built centres are staffed by foreigners or by people who claim they are not "locals" when you address them in Irish. I tell them I'm not local myself either.

I think there is a little job available to suitable people in all the Gaeltachtaí: that of Gaeilgeoir Aitheanta. Just as a visitor to a fishing lake will hire a gillie (giolla) visitors to the Gaeltacht could contact the GA and get the low-down on the best B & Bs for Irish and even run a "meet and greet" session in the local hall every day -- or on demand -- so that visitors with Irish could get some inkling that their tax euros were not going to loss in a non-existant Gaeltacht. The GA would know the best Irish-speakers and could effect introductions. The Timirí and folklore collectors used visit the Parish Priest or schoolmaster first in the early days of the last century. Gaelsaoire does not seem to have survived nor does it make any distinction between B&Bs with Irish and those without.

Some areas already have heritage centres and have appointed staff to maintain them and receive visitors. Unfortunately, when it comes to Irish, since most of the visitors don't know anything of the language. local people with no knowledge of the language may be employed and those of us who like to exchange a few words with real live native speakers find we have to go without.

In recent years Irish courses are being organised for adults in the Gaeltacht on the lines of Oideas Gael and they are proving a great success.

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Sneachta
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Username: Sneachta

Post Number: 58
Registered: 05-2010
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 04:02 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

i have heard a few stories and the ones mentioned here are fun. When i went to vist a Native speaker from this Site last year , i also tryed my Irish in a local shop , i said to the lady behind the counter
Bhfuil tú gnóthach inniu ? to which came the reply , tá , tá an aimsir go deas inniu lol , aw well im sure Connamara and Ulster Irish are quite different.I was also told somethg i heard before that the raidio is changed or lowered when Donegal Irish is on, maybe thats a reason why they aint used to hearing that dialect, im not sure how widespread this practice is , maybe the people of Donegal also lower the radio when its a Connamara show. Iv been to Gleann Cholm Cille , for a few years now during the summer for a week long course , and the atmosphere in the bars is amazing , almost all the people in the bar are Learners of one level or another , and all there for the same reason and all willing to help and share their stories , no matter what country they are from , which can be wide and varied.

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 382
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 05:32 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

And all that ended ins an ghuthán mhór bhán. LOL



Guthán mór bán?

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Carmanach
Member
Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 383
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 05:36 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Do any of you think if we followed the route suggested by Michael Mac Dowell a few years back and had Italian-style café bars we would have less drunkeness and disorderliness? Or we would just end up having the same drunken idiots throwing olives, sun-dried tomatoes and pecorino at each other rather than bottles and glasses?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10477
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 05:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

Guthán mór bán?



Is dócha gur láidre do ghoile ná mo ghoile agus goile Lughaidh, mura dtuigeann tú.

quote:

Do any of you think if we followed the route suggested by Michael Mac Dowell a few years back and had Italian-style café bars we would have less drunkeness and disorderliness?



Tá níos mó ná sin i gceist: ar an Mór Roinn, tá cultúir eile óil ann: bíonn daoine de gach aois le chéile sna tithe óil; itear agus óltar le chéile, agus bíonn daoine i dtaithí air ó aois óg.

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Carmanach
Member
Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 384
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 06:04 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

Is dócha gur láidre do ghoile ná mo ghoile agus goile Lughaidh, mura dtuigeann tú.



Go labhra sé leat!

quote:

Tá níos mó ná sin i gceist: ar an Mór Roinn, tá cultúir eile óil ann: bíonn daoine de gach aois le chéile sna tithe óil; itear agus óltar le chéile, agus bíonn daoine i dtaithí air ó aois óg.



Tuigim. Ideir mhagadh is dáiríribh a bhíos!

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10478
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 07:21 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

Go labhra sé leat!



Anois ní thuigimse, nó ar bhfuil tú ag guí taom urlacain orm?

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 385
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 07:26 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Go labhra do ghoile leat, nó ab é sin a bhí Lughaidh a rá?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10479
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 07:32 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Ní hea: Guthán mór bán? = Leithreas.

Táid ann a dtéann (ró-)ól trom ar a ngoile, agus go mbíd ag caint le dia an lá dár gcionn ar an nguthán mór bán.

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 386
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 07:34 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

guthán mór bán = urlacan? Cad fé ndeár an "guthán" san?

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 387
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 07:36 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Á, tuigim anois! An-mhaith go léir! Caithfead cuimhneamh ar an gceann san!

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3675
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 08:41 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Seidh, an guthan mor ban : http://lalignejaune.canalblog.com/images/worth1000.com_microsoft_toilettes.jpg

Nach bhfuil sé cosuil le guthan? :-)


Agus "bheith ag labhairt ins an ghuthan mhor bhan" : teilgean, urlacan, cur amach...

Cor cainte slang Fraincise ata ann (ach nil sé ag achan nduine - go foill) ach b'fhéidir é a dh'usaid i dteangthacha eile siocair go bhfuil sé iontach greannmhar :-)

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10480
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 08:42 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Tá sé cloiste agamsa cheana as Béarla.

Oiriúnach, go háirithe os rud é gur minic daoine ag olagóin agus ag mionnú do Dhia nach ndéanfaidh siad ragairne riamh arís...

(Message edited by aonghus on October 15, 2010)

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3676
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 08:59 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Ah, cha rabh's agam go rabh sé le failt i mBéarla fosta.

Cor cainte eile : ghabhail a chur scairt ghuthain ar Raoul, no ar Edouard.
(Mar go dtig le fuaim "Raoul" agus "Edouard" bheith cosuil le fuaim duine inteacht ata a' teilgean (go hairid an fhuaim "r" Fhrancach) : Raouuuuuuuuul! Edouaaaaaaaaaard) :-)

Ta sin le cluinstean in sketch fan "tinneas cinn" (i ndiaidh olachain) ag fear ghrinn Fhrancach.

Cf anseo : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV4vsFRdcgc

- "chuaigh tu a labhairt ins an ghuthan mhor bhan arist" ("t'as encore été parler dans le grand téléphone blanc") : ag 2'12''

- "chuaigh tu a fonail Raoul agus Edouard" ("t'as été appeler Raoul, et Edouard") : ag 2'18''


LOL

(Message edited by Lughaidh on October 15, 2010)

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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Carmanach
Member
Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 389
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 09:50 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Leaganacha cainte ó Chorca Dhuibhne:

caithfidh mé dul chun suí liom féin = mo chac a dhéanamh

tá cúram an rí orm = mún

caithfidh mé uisce a chuir ar na pósaíos = mún

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Sineadw
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Post Number: 530
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 10:09 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Re. fleaige and árthach spéarach.

Many thanks! These will be treasured :)

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Seánw
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Post Number: 809
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 12:40 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Ha! Abhus anseo tá tú ag guí dé phoircealláin.

(Message edited by seánw on October 15, 2010)

I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3677
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 12:42 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

tá cúram an rí orm = mún



tuighe "curam an ri"?

quote:

caithfidh mé uisce a chuir ar na pósaíos = mún



I mBriotainis deireann muid "uisce a chur ar na préatai", no "uisce an éisc a athru" :-)

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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Macdara
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Post Number: 174
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 01:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Guthan mór bhán,talking to God on the Big White Telephone.

We've all been there:faraor!

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Abigail
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Post Number: 1287
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 02:21 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

@Lughaidh: cén cúram eile a bheadh ar rí!

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3679
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 02:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

lol

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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The_Lilywhites Guest (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 10:56 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

There are more words that native speakers have made but the Coiste Téarmaíocta don't know about.

In Conamara there is ''fuaradán'' for fridge which makes a lot more sense than ''cuisneoir'', and in Donegal they say ''bata gaoithe'' for bicycle pump.

By the way, Gaeltacht people are more happy to speak Irish with people who are fluent and don't struggle to put a sentence together, they are also more comfortable if you have a Gaeltacht blas. I emulate my prononciation on Conamara Irish and try to aim to speak like a native speaker from that reigion of Ireland, I spent over 7 weeks there during the summer and spoke Irish all the time not once I had a refusal. Infact a handful of locals commented that I speak Conamara Irish so that shows they are happy when you speak their local dialect.

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David Webb from corkirish.com (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 11:07 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

I am sitting in an Internet cafe in a farflung corner of China, as I just need to let some people know I arrived safely after a long journey. But I looked in here and still want to make some comments before catching up on lots of sleep.

* What if you don't want to go to the pub every night? I know this may sound boring or even like you don't appreciate the Irish culture, but I don't really like going to the pub EVERY night. Twice a week would be quite sufficient for me. But as I made contact with people in the Udaras (no fadas possible on Chinese keyboard apparently), they normally try to help me, and I don't like to say know to the suggestion they pick me up and take me to this place and that to drink beer, introduce me to people and speak what Irish I can muster. I am thinking that I should not take advantage of people's help in this way (another consideration) and that next time I go to the GT (Gaeltacht) to make it clear I would like to go some nights to the pub, and study on other nights. Of course they know I am interested in the old stuff and have put me in contact with older speakers, who don't all go down the pub, and I can see them in their homes and visit for coffee/tea whatever.

* I don't think it is right for the pub to be the only social forum, although the reality of life is that without a pub there would be no central forum. In fact the reason why Coolea is a little stronger than Ballyvourney is the lack of a pub, as there is no forum to bring outsiders in. The only public place in Coolea, if not the primary school, is the church.

* I would now like to ask Muskerryites about arthach spearach and cairt. I think gluaistean was invested by and for Muskerry though. But note that PUL had mo/tor (I think this would be mo/tar in the modern orthography):

carr - car
gluaistean - automobile
motor - motor car

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Ggn
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Post Number: 286
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 01:03 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Riail a haon - ná labhair FAOIN Ghaeilge!

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Dmd
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Post Number: 119
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 02:15 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Have to say I agree strongly with David Webb on the issue of the pub culture. I get bored stiff with the pub scene,Galltacht or Gaeltacht. Courses in the Gaeltacht are fine, and I've been on a few, but this pub thing turns me off from going back. I tell myself I'd like to go next summer but the memories of crap nights listening to raiméis (no matter how perfect the spoken word may be)for hours on end deters me. Then there's the pool table and the endless soccer re-runs etc on the TV.
Thankfully up in BAC you have the Cnocadoiri and other outlets (soon to have a Cumann CLG Lán Gaeilge).
I suppose while I'm ranting I might also mention an loistín. It has been my experience, and that of many others of my acquaintance, that in many places you are basically confined to your room and the place where meals, usually breakfast, are served. The vibes are often not good if, like David has indicated, you don't want to go to the pub most nights and might actually wish to stay in and PERHAPS have someone to talk with.
Lest anyone think I am just a fuddy-duddy, I can assure them I've been around, done that!
Finally,if my posting draws any comments from Daltaiboarders, I don't wish to see any more of the arguements that have infected this forum in the last few months. They are really tiresome. Apologies for spelling errors, Gaeilge or bearla.

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Carmanach
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 06:37 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

tuighe "curam an ri"?



Féach an bhfeadarsa!

I understand what David is saying about pubs not being everyone's cup of tea. Unfortunately, in Ireland pubs are an indispensable part of social intercourse for most people. I don't think pubs as such are the problem more the company you end up with. If you're lucky to have intelligent people with a good sense of humour to converse with you're onto a winner. Also if you don't drink there's always non-alcoholic beer or pints of blackcurrent cordial. If don't like pubs full stop, then there's little else to be done if you live in a rural area apart from joining a group of some sort or doing voluntary work in the community.

David talked of visiting people in their houses to talk in Irish. I used to do the same thing years ago in Corca Dhuibhne but I always felt that I was intruding on people's time and space and stopped doing it. Now I would head to the pub and try and talk to people there though I note in Cléire that the last of the old people who can speak Irish don't go to any of the three pubs on the island and as I said I'm loathe to visit someone at home without a prior invitation.

A good idea is to visit the Gaeltacht during one of the many festivals that take place throughout the year. Of course, you will have a lot of outsiders around but many of the locals will head out to the pub who might not normally do so. A good festival is Scoil Cheoil an Earraigh in Ballyferriter. The last time I was at it I met loads of people from the area and a few from Cúil Aodha. Cúil Aodha and Baile Bhúirne have Éigse Dhiarmuidín Uí Shúilleabháin in November. Not much Irish to be heard when I was at it last year but I did meet a handful of locals with Irish which I might not otherwise have done.

quote:

Finally,if my posting draws any comments from Daltaiboarders, I don't wish to see any more of the arguements that have infected this forum in the last few months. They are really tiresome.



I see. So one should avoid debating or questioning statements made by other contributors lest you find them "tiresome"?

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Taidhgín
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 07:47 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

the arguements that have infected this forum

Whatever can you be referring to? Could you indicate to us what is acceptable to you? We wouldn't wish to offend.

Me? I'm off to "taobh na Gaeilge" féachaint an bhfuil eolas ag aon duine eile faoi "Bhrú na Mí" ar nós "cé bhunaigh é agus cén uair?"

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David Webb from corkirish.com (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 08:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Dmd, I don't have a problem with the lóistín - they have a common room or sitting room that guests can use with a large and comfortable table for me to use my computer on. Yes, there is a limit to how conversation the bean an tí would like - but that is how it should be too.

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Carmanach
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Post Number: 399
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 06:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Yes, I imagine the typical bean an tí is doing several jobs at the same time and has only limited time to chat. I imagine the big problem with some of those Gaeltacht courses is that you spend a lot of time hanging around with other learners such as yourself and have little opportunity to hear native speakers, like the situation in Dublin where learners speak almost exclusively with other learners. In Dublin of course there are few Gaeltacht people around to speak with. I can only think of one I know well, a guy from Gaoth Dobhair who regularly comes into Club an Chonartha. I also know another girl from Dún Chaoin and a lady from Conamara but that's about it.

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Macdara
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 07:49 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

There is a great variety in na lóistíni i mo thuairim.One B & B bean an tí I met was so chatty I ran out of Irish and was reduced to monosyllabic replies!


But an acquaintance went on an 'environmental holiday' in Donegal and,after a few conversational forays,was told 'look,just speak English'.She was most put out ,being a schoolteacher from Listowel.'I take great care over my diction 'she said.It''s true for you about Cléire,pub wise.Although I 'harrassed' a bar guy into putting up with my Gaeilge briste last time I was in Cíarán Danny Mike's.

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Carmanach
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 07:58 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

The last time I was in Cléire, the fellow working in the shop spoke typical school Irish with an Anglophone accent and pronunciation. The bean an tí, though, spoke proper Gaeltacht Irish without the English pronunciation. I think there is still some Irish in Cléire but you need to look hard for it. I heard no Irish at all spoken in any of the pubs. One guy in Ciarán Danny Mike's said to me when I commented on the lack of Irish in the island in general "You're twenty years too late!".

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The_lilywhites
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 11:06 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

I walked from Na Forbacha to An Spidéal in Galway this year, I spoke to some locals in Na Forbacha and one of them said to me ''Irish is going''. I didn't hear any Irish at all in Furbo and couldn't find many people that could speak it but the time I got half way to Spidéál the language changed automatically to Irish which I found this very interesting to see. I started to hear it in peoples gardens, and asked someone how far is An Spidéal and got a reply back in Irish. Once you get to a place called An Pháirc thats where the language starts. Interesting how you get these linguistic boundries in Ireland.

In my opinion, Conamara has to be the best for locals speaking to learners in Irish. Just go into Siopa Mhicí in Carraroe and I can bet you anything they will speak Irish to you straight away before you open your mouth, same in the centra in Leitir Móir.

Whereas in the other fíor-Ghaeltachtaí they speak English to you first like in Gweedore.

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3680
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 11:33 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

Whereas in the other fíor-Ghaeltachtaí they speak English to you first like in Gweedore.



Are there more tourists going to Gweedore? That may explain that.
Anyway in Gweedore we always talked first, in Irish - I couldn't notice people would tend to talk in English to people they dunno, in Gweedore :-)
I remember only 2 persons who didn't answer us back in Irish in Gweedore : the woman of the take-away food shop (who was Scottish) and a woman in the restaurant of Ionad Cois Locha, who wasn't from the Gaeltacht (I don't remember where she was from).

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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The_lilywhites
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 12:12 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

I remember only 2 persons who didn't answer us back in Irish in Gweedore : the woman of the take-away food shop (who was Scottish) and a woman in the restaurant of Ionad Cois Locha, who wasn't from the Gaeltacht (I don't remember where she was from).



Yes, I believe I was with you a chara :-)

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Carmanach
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Post Number: 401
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 12:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Yes the invisible linguistic boundaries are most interesting. In Corca Dhuibhne the areas where the language largely survives today are divided from the rest of the official Gaeltacht where Irish is almost dead by a line of hills runnning from west of Ventry and across Leataobh Meánach over to Mount Brandon. I dated a girl from the Leitriúch a number of years ago and visited the area a number of times. Leitriúch is east of Mount Brandon. Irish is as dead as a doornail there.

In Uíbh Ráthach in south Kerry, Irish is almost extinct except for an area known by locals as "The Glen". The Glen itself is also surrounded by a ring of hills and looks out onto St Finan's Bay. I remember chatting to the lady who runs the local shop there. She had beaufiful Gaeltacht Irish with no hint of Anglophone intonation or pronunciation. Just over the hills in Ballinskelligs, no one in the bar could speak Irish and indeed one man who was born and reared in the area was deeply apologetic for not being able to speak Irish. All of the people I spoke to were in their fifties or late forties! I've also heard it said that Irish survives in the upper reaches of the Inny Valley but that is really off the beaten track with a single road in and out.

I've always wondered why Irish disappeared so completely from the Beara Peninsula and Sheep's Head but I think the presence of the British navy base in Berehaven as well as the copper mining didn't help. I think people from Cornwall among other places moved into Beara to work the mines. Also, the area was badly hit by the famine. Today large tracts of Beara are devoid of houses.

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Carmanach
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 12:25 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Am I right in saying that in only two parts of the official Gaeltacht has the boundary been shifted since the official borders were drawn up in the fifties: Leitriúch was added to the Corca Dhuibhne Gaeltacht in the sixties (?) and a chunk of West Muskerry was tagged onto the Gaeltacht there around the same time, I think. I understand that this was done largely for political reasons rather linguistic ones.

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Carmanach
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Post Number: 403
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 12:26 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

I think the Ring Gaeltacht in Waterford might also have been extended to the west in the seventies?

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Lughaidh
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 12:43 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

Yes, I believe I was with you a chara :-)



Bhi, ins an take-away, ach in Ionad Cois Locha cha rabh tu linn nios mo :-)

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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Carmanach
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Post Number: 405
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 12:58 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Lughaidh, an bhfeacaís an cheist a bhí agam mar gheall ar "dtaobh"?

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The_lilywhites
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 03:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Nach bhfuil mórán Gaeilge i gCeann Trá?

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Taidhgín
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Post Number: 970
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 03:48 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Tá cur síos anseo ar an nGaeltacht i 1926, 1956, agus sa lá atá inniu ann agus cúpla léarscáil deas soiléir. http://www.irishgeography.org/v40-1/usinggis_c.pdf
Feicim go mbíodh Gaeilge á labhairt san áit arb as mo mhuintir féin rud a fhágann nach ón ngaoith a thógamar í. D'fhoilsigh Garrett Fitzgerald staidéar ar lucht labhartha na Gaeilge mar a léiríodh iad sna daonáirimh éagsúla. Níl a fhios agam an bhfuil na léarscáileanna sin ar an Idirlíon.

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The_lilywhites
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 06:00 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

The other linguistic boundry in Galway is on the road from An Spidéal to Moycullen. I cycled that road and was just about 5 miles up that road to find out that they speak English there, basically half of the road is Irish speaking, and other half is English.

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Carmanach
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Post Number: 407
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 04:59 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

Nach bhfuil mórán Gaeilge i gCeann Trá?



Beagán. Tá roinnt Gaelainne níosa shia siar, Cathair an Treantaigh, Fán agus na bailte eile leaithis leo.

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Corkirish
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Post Number: 5
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 05:20 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Carmanach, I have seen "níosa" once or twice, although I am unsure about why you lenited sia. Can you offer a rule of thumb when to use níos and when níosa?

These things are often in free variance in real speech, but it helps if you have a little rule, eg dhuit after a vowel and after r, rather than duit, and athá after a vowel rather than atá (I notice that Amhlaoibh Ó Loingsigh said athá only when the preceding word ended in a vowel...). This is partly imposing a rule to tidy up the native dialect, but I wonder what rule could be devised for níosa?

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Carmanach
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Post Number: 410
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 05:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Both níos and níosa are found in CD. After níos, a consonant remains unchanged: níos saibhre, níos sia. After níosa, a consonant is lenited if lenitable: níos shia, níosa ghairí (ghairbhe). With fearr, bh is used: níosa bhfearr but níos fearr is also heard.

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Carmanach
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Post Number: 411
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 05:49 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Error above: read níosa shia for níos shia.

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Sineadw
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Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 531
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 07:47 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Is this níosa used in same tenses as 'níb/ níba' are (as in conditional and past)?

Is níb/níba used in Munster at all?

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3684
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 08:03 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Niosa is only present and future, I think.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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Carmanach
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Post Number: 413
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 08:23 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

Is this níosa used in same tenses as 'níb/ níba' are (as in conditional and past)?



Níos/níosa can be used in all tenses and moods.

quote:

Is níb/níba used in Munster at all?



Yes.

quote:

Niosa is only present and future, I think.



No. See Ó Sé section 324.

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Sineadw
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Post Number: 532
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 08:27 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

So níosa is simply a variation of níos which just happens to have something in common with ní ba in how it lenites consonants that follow after it.

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Carmanach
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Post Number: 415
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 08:35 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure of where níosa + lenition comes from but I suspect it is ní (noun) + is (copula) + a (a particle of some sort) just as ní ba is ní (noun) + ba (past form of copula).

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Aonghus
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Post Number: 10486
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 08:53 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

quote:

This construction continues in use to form the compar. (the force of the indef. pron. being lost sight of) down to the mod. period, in which it is gradually replaced by the stereotyped forms níos, níosa (< ní as), used regardless of tense. an té agá mbiadh do thoicce shaoghalta ní sa mhó ioná a riachtanas,



Féach "1 ní" i http://www.dil.ie

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Corkirish
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Post Number: 6
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 08:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Séadna has "níosa mheasa", but "níosa seacht measa". I think the latter means "seven times worse" or just "a lot worse", but interestingly the numeral was not lenited. But Mo Sgéal Féin has "níba sheacht measa "

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Seánw
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Username: Seánw

Post Number: 814
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 10:10 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Seacht is an intensifier also.

(Message edited by seánw on October 19, 2010)

I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.



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