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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (September-October) » Archive through October 18, 2010 » Briathar Saor following Relative Particle « Previous Next »

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James_murphy
Member
Username: James_murphy

Post Number: 469
Registered: 11-2005


Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 03:24 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

As I understand it, the C.O. forms are as follows:


Óltara óltar
Ólfara ólfar
D'óladha óladh
D'óltaía d'óltaí
D'ólfaía d'ólfaí


And the following, more traditional system, is still used in the dialects (Munster?):


Óltara hóltar
Ólfara hólfar
(Do) hóladha hóladh
(Do) hóltaía hóltaí
(Do) hólfaía hólfaí


Is this right?

Séamus Ó Murċaḋa

Inis fá réim i gcéin san Iarṫar tá
Dá ngoirid luċt léiġinn Tír Éireann fialṁar cáil

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Carmanach
Member
Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 263
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 04:41 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

I gCorca Dhuibhne:

óltar - a hóltar = láithreach
ólfar - a hólfar = fáistineach
(h)óladh - a hóladh = caite
(dh')óltaí - a hóltaí/a dh'óltaí = gnáthchaite
óltar = ordaitheach
go n-óltar = guítheach
(dh')ólfaí - a hólfaí/a dh'ólfaí = coinníollach

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3655
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 07:04 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

The past form, even in standard Irish, isn't "d'óladh" but "óladh" (and in most dialects "hóladh", which is more traditional).

D'óladh means "(he...) used to drink), it's not a briathar saor.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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James_murphy
Member
Username: James_murphy

Post Number: 470
Registered: 11-2005


Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 03:10 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Go raibh maith agaibh as bhur bhfreagraí.
quote:

The past form, even in standard Irish, isn't "d'óladh" but "óladh"


Sorry, that was a typo.

Séamus Ó Murċaḋa

Inis fá réim i gcéin san Iarṫar tá
Dá ngoirid luċt léiġinn Tír Éireann fialṁar cáil

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David Webb from corkirish.com (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 03:39 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Séamus, your second list is right for traditional Cork Irish, apart from the fact that the "do" is not optional for the autonomous form. It is "do hóladh", not hóladh. PUL himself said the "do" may not be dropped in the autonomous form.

Also interesting are the forms after níor etc. Well, they are the same:

Do hóladh, níor hóladh, ar hóladh? nár hóladh?

Present autonomous -tear, -tar: the t is always pronounced broad regardless of the spelling

Future autonomous -fear, -far: the f is always pronounced broad regardless of the spelling

Conditional autonomous -fí, -faí: the f is always pronounced slender regardless of the spelling

Imperfect autonomous -tí, -taí: the t is always pronounced slender regardless of the spelling



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