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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (September-October) » Archive through October 02, 2010 » 'Arna' « Previous Next »

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Seamás91
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Username: Seamás91

Post Number: 287
Registered: 10-2009


Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 08:44 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

This word is puzzling me. Mar shampla, 'an lá arna mhárach', would that mean 'the day on the morrow'. Ní rabhas ach ag smaoineamh ar an méid sin.
Agus conas atá an fhocal 'arna' úsáidthe i líon.

'mar ná beidh ár leithidí arís ann'
-Tomás O'Croitháin (An t-Oiléanach)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10282
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 08:50 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

arna [comhfhocal]
(ar1 + a4) tar éis do (arna chríochnú dom).

'an lá arna mhárach' the next day

Féach bárach i www.dil.ie

agus amárach

amárach [dobhriathar][ainmfhocal][aidiacht]
an chéad lá eile, an lá i ndiaidh inniu.



quote:

Agus conas atá an fhocal 'arna' úsáidthe i líon.



Ní thuigim cad atá i gceist agat le "i líon"

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 145
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 09:32 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Aonghus is right that arna can be iar + n + a, literally "after its doing, publishing" etc. which according to Dinneen corresponds to the Latin pluperfect in the construction iar + verbal noun + do marking agent: iar ndul abhaile dó = after he had gone hom. The "ar" in "arna" being a contraction of "iar".

In "lá arna mhárach", however, this is not the case and Séamas91 is correct, though the Irish reads literally "the day on its morrow" being ar + n + a (possessive adjective).

If the arna in "lá arna mhárach" were a contraction of iarna, it would mean "the day after tomorrow".

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 146
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 09:37 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

The arna being a contraction of iar + n + a is mostly used nowadays in legislation ("arna leasú le hAcht 2004" = as amended by) and in the phrase used by publishers "Arna fhoilsiú ag Gill & Macmillan, Teo."

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10285
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 09:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Ní mise a dúirt, ach an bhFoclóir Beag.

Agus ní "iar" atá i gceist ach "ar" sa chéad ciall sa bhFoclóir Beag.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10286
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 09:41 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Ach deir dil gur íar atá i gceist:

http://www.dil.ie/results-list.asp?mode=ADV&searchText=%20b%C3%A1rach&HIGH=%20b% C3%A1rach&respage=0&resperpage=10&Fuzzy=0&bhcp=1
b) (í)ar(n)a (= prep. ar or íar + poss. pron. 3s.) b.¤ the next day, on the morrow: romdis direchtai arabarach `on the morrow ', Ml. 48 d 12 . uenit . . . O. . . . arrabarach, Lib. Hymn. i 46.8 . Ériu xx 164.39 . arabárach, Trip.² 147. iarnabárach, Thes. ii 329.38 (Hy. v Comm.). nocon bía luaithne de iarna- bárach, Trip.² 180. arna bárach, LU 4779. isind laithiu iarnabarach (sequenti die), Lat. Lives 8.7 . PH 1250. iara- barach, Mon. Tall. 164.9 (§ 88) . arabarach, 161.16 (§ 81) . arnamairech, Maund. 262. ar na bhárach ┐ ar na bháirech cóir aráon, Bard. Synt. Tr. 18.209.21 . ar a bhārach, RSClára 13 a . biit and íarum co arna bárach until the next day , TBFr. 351. cusarnabárach, LU 8764 ( FB 57 ). gan a breith có abhárach till tomorrow , RC vi 175.55 . go horbhar- ach, FM vi 2102.5 . See I búarach.

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 149
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 09:49 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Mmm. Deir DIL gur "ar" nó "iar" athá in "arna": http://www.dil.ie/results-list.asp?mode=BAS&Fuzzy=0&lang=OIr&searchtext=%20b%C3% A1rach%20(Old%20Irish)&findlet=+&findcol=&sortField=ID&sortDIR=65602&respage=0&resperpage =10&bhcp=1

(Brúigh Expand All fé "bárach")

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 150
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 09:50 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Tabhair do t'aire gur ar nó iar a deirid siad! - "b) (í)ar(n)a (= prep. ar or íar + poss. pron. 3s.)"

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10288
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 09:52 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Gheobhaidh tú arna i DIL faoi ar.

Na focail bheaga is casta...

Agus fós níl fhios againn cén líon atá i gceist ag Séamas.

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Carmanach
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Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 151
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 09:56 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

San aimsir chaite a húsáidtear "lá arna mháireach" ach go háirithin a deir na Bráithre linn:

21.32 Ag tagairt don lá i ndiaidh lá áirithe atá thart deirtear lá arna mhárach, an lá dár gcionn, an lá a bhí chugainn.
Mar an gcéanna an Domhnach dár gcionn; an Luan a bhí chugainn.
Agus ag tagairt do rud a tharla bliain (dhá bhliain, ...) ó shin: fuair sé bás cothrom an lae inniu (inné, amárach).

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10289
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 09:59 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Bheadh ciall leis sin; bheadh air bheith thart.

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Seamás91
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Username: Seamás91

Post Number: 288
Registered: 10-2009


Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 10:30 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

'Líon' is the irish for 'sentence' isn't it? I don't exactly carry a dictionary around with me, unfortunately.

'mar ná beidh ár leithidí arís ann'
-Tomás O'Croitháin (An t-Oiléanach)

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Carmanach
Member
Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 153
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 10:35 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

líne = line
abairt = phrase, sentence
líon = 1)(complete) number of persons, things, etc., 2)flax, linen, 3) net

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10290
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 10:38 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

No.
Líon is a net.

"abairt" is the word you are looking for.

If you are online and need a dictionary, try www.potafocal.com.

Conas a úsáidtear an focal "arna" in abairt?

Seo roinnt samplaí:
http://www.potafocal.com/Search.aspx?Text=arna

Thug Ailín roinnt samplaí eile thuas.

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Carmanach
Member
Username: Carmanach

Post Number: 154
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 10:49 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

From Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí:

13.7 Roimh an ainm briathartha cuirtear á in ionad dá (= do+ a) (13.5), agus is minic arna in ionad ar a (san aimsir chaite): á ól (hól, n ól); arna fhoilsiú (foilsiú, bhfoilsiú).

Further examples from legislation: http://achtanna.oireachtas.ie/

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Umpáin (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 09:24 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit PostPrint Post

Ciallaíonn sé "on being done by" fosta.

M.sh.: Arna fhoilsiú ag Penguin Books.

Nó: Bhí deifir ar Sheán ach bhí an dinnéar le réiteach aige. Arna dhéanamh sin dó, d'imigh sé leis.



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