'Gur' is usually used where the copula is concerned. But in some instances i have seen it in front of verbs instead of 'go'. Why is this so? Is it purely a dialect thing?

Verbs in the past tense use it except

bí
téigh
faigh
déan
feic
abair

these use go

Dúirt mé gur chuala mé thú

(Message edited by Crosáidí on August 31, 2010)

No it's used everywhere.
Actually there are at least two "gur"'s :


- a form of the copula, actually "go+is"=gur. It is "go+ba" as well (ie. past & conditional) but then it lenites, why the "go+is" one doesn't. Eg. "Is fear é" (he is a man) -> "Deirim gur fear é" (I say that he is a man).
In the past, now: "Ba mhuinteoir é" (he was a teacher) -> "Deirim gur mhuinteoir é" (I say he was a teacher).
(NB: before certain words that begin with a vowel, the present "gur" becomes "gurb", while the past/conditional one becomes "gurbh").


- the past form of "go" before all verbs except a handful of irregular ones.
You say:
- Deirim go n-itheann sé milseain. (I say he eats sweets)
in the past:
- Deirim gur ith sé milseain. (I say he ate sweets)

So it is used in the past tense only?

gur [cónasc]
faoi go 4.

gur [copail]
gur [aimsir láithreach, foirm dhearfach spleách][aimsir chaite, foirm dhearfach spleách][modh coinníollach, foirm dhearfach spleách]
gurbh [aimsir láithreach, foirm dhearfach spleách][aimsir chaite, foirm dhearfach spleách][modh coinníollach, foirm dhearfach spleách]

As a conjunction, it is used in the past only, yes.

Form	Present	Past
Positive	go	gur
Negative	nach	nár

In some cases go is used in place of gur, but still retains the sense of the past. These are bí, abair, déan, faigh, feic, and téigh. This applies to the other verbal particles also. E.g., ní bhfuair instead of níor fhuair, or An bhfaca tú é? instead of Ar chonaic tú é?. The depedent form is also employed in these cases (except abair). In Munster the forms are:

Form	Present	Past
Positive	go	gur
Negative	ná	nár
Negative Following Main Clause	ná go	ná gur

quote:

In some cases go is used in place of gur, but still retains the sense of the past. These are bí, abair, déan, faigh, feic, and téigh.

...in standard Irish.
But that may be different in Gaeltacht Irish. For instance, in Ulster:

go rabh
gur úrt
go dtearr/dtearn
go bhfuair
go bhfacaidh
go dteachaigh

I think you can have "gur chuaigh" in Munster Irish, etc

quote:

Negative Following Main Clause ná go ná gur

This doesn't look correct to me. And I don't see why you make a distinction between negative and negative following main clauses, because "gur" etc always follows main clauses, doesn't it?

Can you give examples?

quote:

But that may be different in Gaeltacht Irish.

Of course. I would expect people to check their local dialects, but to be quiet frank, I don't know every instance in every dialect. The statement had the basics, though.

quote:

This doesn't look correct to me.

I made a mistake, and was corrected by David Webb behind the scenes. I meant "Following A Negative Main Clause". Sorry! (I was actually amazed I was able to produce the table!)

He wrote to me:

I want to explain about ná go - it is not "following a Main Clause" as ná is anyway. It is rather a sentence positive in meaning that follows a negative verb: ní deirim ná go bhfuil sé ann - I DARE SAY he is there - literally, "I don't say but that he is there".

Is deacair a rádh ná go bhfuil fírinne éigin ann - it seems there is some truth in it (it is hard to say but that there is some truth in it) Agus gur dócha ná fuil oiread agus poll francaigh ná go bhfuil aithne aige siúd air, i n-aon bhall sa bhaile mhór - it is likely there is not so much as a rat hole but that he knows it in any part of Dublin

Getting at it from "but that" in English tends to produce the right sense, albeit producing a somewhat archaic-sounding sentence.

(Message edited by seánw on September 01, 2010)