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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (July-August) » Archive through July 14, 2010 » Fir bui? « Previous Next »

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Damian
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Username: Damian

Post Number: 41
Registered: 07-2009


Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 03:57 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Am I right in saying that the Orangemen in Irish is Fir bui? I'm not sure where I picked this up from but if I'm correct does anyone know why?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10027
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 04:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is fíor.

Níl mé cinnte, ach sílim gur focal sách nua sa Ghaeilge is ea oráiste. (Níor éirigh leis na Fir Buí san Afraic Theas, ach tá rudaí gránna ag tarlú arís in Ard Eoin anocht!)

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Séasán
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Username: Séasán

Post Number: 15
Registered: 06-2010
Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 04:22 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I've heard of two Irish versions of 'Orangeman'- Oráisteach and Fear Buí. I'm not sure where 'Fear Buí' came from,because 'buí' is Irish for 'yellow'.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10029
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 04:37 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Seán Buí is the Irish equivalent of John Bull (the stock Englishman). Dinneen states that it is a disparaging epithet.

That might be a reason.

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Séasán
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Username: Séasán

Post Number: 17
Registered: 06-2010
Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 04:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Mar sin,an mbeadh sé féidir go ciallaíonn "Fir Buí" rud cosúil le "Men of bull"?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10030
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 05:00 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ní dóigh liom é. Níl aon nasc idir Bull agus Buí, níl ann ach go n-úsáidtear Buí san leasainm Gaeilge.

Is minic brí leathan ag ainmneacha na dathanna i nGaeilge, níos mó ná dath i gceist.

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Séasán
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Username: Séasán

Post Number: 18
Registered: 06-2010
Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 05:57 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Caithfidh mé na fírinne a rá.Cuireann sé isteach orm go mbíonn Cath na Bóinne á cheiliúradh fós ag na hOráistigh trí chéad bliain is fiche ó shin.Is fuath liom é a fheiceáil ar an teilifís agus bíonn alán trioblóid agus foréigean ann gach bliain.

Áfach,ag an am chéanna,tá muintir na hÉireann(mé féin san áireamh) ag cur mallacht ar Séamus an Caca.

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Seánw
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Username: Seánw

Post Number: 648
Registered: 07-2009


Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 06:28 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Why are black people (who aren't black) blue (gorm)? I think this is a simple case of the colors having wider application in the past because oráiste was really not used. Red (dearg) or yellow (buí) stepped in to do some extra work previously. Kind of like the path of least resistance.

I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3506
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 07:26 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Anyway it is: singular Fear Buí, plural Fir Bhuí (or Fir Bhuídhe).

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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Damian
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Username: Damian

Post Number: 42
Registered: 07-2009


Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 02:50 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

interesting, I was finding it hard to believe there musn't have been a word centuries ago for orange but I suppose if I think about it all the orange objects we see are all man-made, there isn't much at all I can think of I would come across naturally outside that is orange.

Go raibh maith agaibh

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10031
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 04:15 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá an toradh ann! Ach bhíodar gann in Éireann fadó, is dócha. The orange tree is the symbol of the (Dutch) House of Orange of which William was a member.

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Dmd
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Username: Dmd

Post Number: 93
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 04:23 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Bratach na dTrí Dhath: Uaine, Bán agu Flannbhuí

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Séasán
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Username: Séasán

Post Number: 19
Registered: 06-2010
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 05:10 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

An trídhathach uaine,bán agus ór ab fhearr liom.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10032
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 05:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

B'fhéidir é, ach Flannbhuí atá luaite sa mBunreacht.

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Séasán
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Username: Séasán

Post Number: 20
Registered: 06-2010
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 06:19 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Chuala mé riamh go ciallaíonn an trídhathach Caitlicaigh(uaine/glas),Protastúnaigh(oráiste/flannbhuí) agus suaimhneas(bán) idir an dá phobail.Ach is dóigh liom go raibh an trídhathach glas,bán agus ór an bhratach bunúsach na hÉireann.An bhfuil sé sin fíor?

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Dmd
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Username: Dmd

Post Number: 94
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 06:39 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Sílim gur Bratach na dTrí Dhath Wolfe Tone agus a chairde Uaine, Bán agus Flannbhuí. Ach b'fhéidir go bhfuil an ceart agat a Shéasáin.
Tá 'blood orange' (flannbhuí)le fáil sna siopaí toraidh.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 10033
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 06:47 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/upload/publications/1105.pdf

Tá an stair ar fad anseo.

(Message edited by aonghus on July 13, 2010)

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Séasán
Member
Username: Séasán

Post Number: 21
Registered: 06-2010
Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 07:05 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá cúpla teoirice difriúla faoin trídhathach,Dmd.Níor chuala mise an rud sin riamh,ach déanann sé beagáinín ciall freisin.

Go raibh maith agat a Aonghuis,feicfidh mé ar an tsuíomh sin go luath.

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Obuadhaigh
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Username: Obuadhaigh

Post Number: 21
Registered: 06-2009


Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 09:11 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Buí/oráiste *might* have something to do with dyestuffs before the dawn of modern chemical dyes in the mid-nineteenth century. i.e. the Orangemen might have *wanted* orange sashes, but with only natural dyes available what they might have got was merely a deep yellow; Orangemen, however, was what they aimed to be. I'm just guessing on the basis of other, related problems I'm aware of regarding pre-industrial dyes.

The 'fear gorm' was explained to me years ago by an old Irish teacher who claimed that if you look closely enough at the skin of some native Africans it has a blueish tinge to it. I have never been so rude as to try to confirm that, but it's worth bearing in mind that native Africans are probably what the Irish saw, and not all native Africans have the same intensity of colour depending on where they're from. After all, some of the folk English-speakers today call 'Blacks' are really quite brown.

Sean

- living with the shame of being the first non-native speaker in his family...

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Breacban
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Username: Breacban

Post Number: 266
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 11:55 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I heard the fear gorm was used so as not to refer to people as the fear dubh a different character altogether. There are numerous refrences to people with yellow or sallow skin in irish litreature. peig tells the story of a peeler with the yellow skin. this was probably used as an insult. funny really when one of archetypel images of irish people "types" of irish people is of the the dark irish man or woman.

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Seánw
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Username: Seánw

Post Number: 652
Registered: 07-2009


Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 12:17 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

jaundiced skin also

I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.

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Colorless (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 07:51 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The term fear dubh is used for the devil, therefore fear gorm



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