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Damian
Member Username: Damian
Post Number: 41 Registered: 07-2009
| Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 03:57 pm: |
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Am I right in saying that the Orangemen in Irish is Fir bui? I'm not sure where I picked this up from but if I'm correct does anyone know why? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 10027 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 04:20 pm: |
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Is fíor. Níl mé cinnte, ach sílim gur focal sách nua sa Ghaeilge is ea oráiste. (Níor éirigh leis na Fir Buí san Afraic Theas, ach tá rudaí gránna ag tarlú arís in Ard Eoin anocht!) |
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Séasán
Member Username: Séasán
Post Number: 15 Registered: 06-2010
| Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 04:22 pm: |
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I've heard of two Irish versions of 'Orangeman'- Oráisteach and Fear Buí. I'm not sure where 'Fear Buí' came from,because 'buí' is Irish for 'yellow'. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 10029 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 04:37 pm: |
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Seán Buí is the Irish equivalent of John Bull (the stock Englishman). Dinneen states that it is a disparaging epithet. That might be a reason. |
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Séasán
Member Username: Séasán
Post Number: 17 Registered: 06-2010
| Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 04:55 pm: |
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Mar sin,an mbeadh sé féidir go ciallaíonn "Fir Buí" rud cosúil le "Men of bull"? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 10030 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 05:00 pm: |
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Ní dóigh liom é. Níl aon nasc idir Bull agus Buí, níl ann ach go n-úsáidtear Buí san leasainm Gaeilge. Is minic brí leathan ag ainmneacha na dathanna i nGaeilge, níos mó ná dath i gceist. |
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Séasán
Member Username: Séasán
Post Number: 18 Registered: 06-2010
| Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 05:57 pm: |
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Caithfidh mé na fírinne a rá.Cuireann sé isteach orm go mbíonn Cath na Bóinne á cheiliúradh fós ag na hOráistigh trí chéad bliain is fiche ó shin.Is fuath liom é a fheiceáil ar an teilifís agus bíonn alán trioblóid agus foréigean ann gach bliain. Áfach,ag an am chéanna,tá muintir na hÉireann(mé féin san áireamh) ag cur mallacht ar Séamus an Caca. |
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Seánw
Member Username: Seánw
Post Number: 648 Registered: 07-2009
| Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 06:28 pm: |
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Why are black people (who aren't black) blue (gorm)? I think this is a simple case of the colors having wider application in the past because oráiste was really not used. Red (dearg) or yellow (buí) stepped in to do some extra work previously. Kind of like the path of least resistance. I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 3506 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 07:26 pm: |
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Anyway it is: singular Fear Buí, plural Fir Bhuí (or Fir Bhuídhe). Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Damian
Member Username: Damian
Post Number: 42 Registered: 07-2009
| Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 02:50 am: |
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interesting, I was finding it hard to believe there musn't have been a word centuries ago for orange but I suppose if I think about it all the orange objects we see are all man-made, there isn't much at all I can think of I would come across naturally outside that is orange. Go raibh maith agaibh |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 10031 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 04:15 am: |
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Tá an toradh ann! Ach bhíodar gann in Éireann fadó, is dócha. The orange tree is the symbol of the (Dutch) House of Orange of which William was a member. |
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Dmd
Member Username: Dmd
Post Number: 93 Registered: 09-2009
| Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 04:23 am: |
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Bratach na dTrí Dhath: Uaine, Bán agu Flannbhuí |
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Séasán
Member Username: Séasán
Post Number: 19 Registered: 06-2010
| Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 05:10 am: |
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An trídhathach uaine,bán agus ór ab fhearr liom. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 10032 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 05:48 am: |
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B'fhéidir é, ach Flannbhuí atá luaite sa mBunreacht. |
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Séasán
Member Username: Séasán
Post Number: 20 Registered: 06-2010
| Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 06:19 am: |
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Chuala mé riamh go ciallaíonn an trídhathach Caitlicaigh(uaine/glas),Protastúnaigh(oráiste/flannbhuí) agus suaimhneas(bán) idir an dá phobail.Ach is dóigh liom go raibh an trídhathach glas,bán agus ór an bhratach bunúsach na hÉireann.An bhfuil sé sin fíor? |
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Dmd
Member Username: Dmd
Post Number: 94 Registered: 09-2009
| Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 06:39 am: |
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Sílim gur Bratach na dTrí Dhath Wolfe Tone agus a chairde Uaine, Bán agus Flannbhuí. Ach b'fhéidir go bhfuil an ceart agat a Shéasáin. Tá 'blood orange' (flannbhuí)le fáil sna siopaí toraidh. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 10033 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 06:47 am: |
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http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/upload/publications/1105.pdf Tá an stair ar fad anseo. (Message edited by aonghus on July 13, 2010) |
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Séasán
Member Username: Séasán
Post Number: 21 Registered: 06-2010
| Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 07:05 am: |
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Tá cúpla teoirice difriúla faoin trídhathach,Dmd.Níor chuala mise an rud sin riamh,ach déanann sé beagáinín ciall freisin. Go raibh maith agat a Aonghuis,feicfidh mé ar an tsuíomh sin go luath. |
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Obuadhaigh
Member Username: Obuadhaigh
Post Number: 21 Registered: 06-2009
| Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 09:11 am: |
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Buí/oráiste *might* have something to do with dyestuffs before the dawn of modern chemical dyes in the mid-nineteenth century. i.e. the Orangemen might have *wanted* orange sashes, but with only natural dyes available what they might have got was merely a deep yellow; Orangemen, however, was what they aimed to be. I'm just guessing on the basis of other, related problems I'm aware of regarding pre-industrial dyes. The 'fear gorm' was explained to me years ago by an old Irish teacher who claimed that if you look closely enough at the skin of some native Africans it has a blueish tinge to it. I have never been so rude as to try to confirm that, but it's worth bearing in mind that native Africans are probably what the Irish saw, and not all native Africans have the same intensity of colour depending on where they're from. After all, some of the folk English-speakers today call 'Blacks' are really quite brown. Sean - living with the shame of being the first non-native speaker in his family...
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Breacban
Member Username: Breacban
Post Number: 266 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 11:55 am: |
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I heard the fear gorm was used so as not to refer to people as the fear dubh a different character altogether. There are numerous refrences to people with yellow or sallow skin in irish litreature. peig tells the story of a peeler with the yellow skin. this was probably used as an insult. funny really when one of archetypel images of irish people "types" of irish people is of the the dark irish man or woman. |
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Seánw
Member Username: Seánw
Post Number: 652 Registered: 07-2009
| Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 12:17 pm: |
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jaundiced skin also I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.
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Colorless (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 07:51 pm: |
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The term fear dubh is used for the devil, therefore fear gorm |
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