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Earlybird20
Member Username: Earlybird20
Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2009
| Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 02:29 pm: |
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Hello! I was on here before searching for unique kennel names (dogs) and received alot of help from the people here! I am still in the process of looking for a name but kind of narrowed it in. Now I need help with following “Ó Madagáin” means “little dog”. As far as I was able to find out the “Ó” stands for a male descendant. Here some name examples (how they could be used for a kennel name): Aodhán Ó Madagáin = Little fire of the little dog = pronounced like Aidan, to me that is male Acuisle Ó Madagáin = Pulse of the little dog = pronounced like Acushla, to me that is female Aleanbh Ó Madagáin = Child of the little dog = pronounced like Alannah, to me that is female Arún Ó Madagáin = Love of the little dog = pronounced like Aroon, to me that is male What is the female form? I also need more translations into irish-gaelic: “Little dogs” (plural) “ ... of the little dogs” (for example: Aodhán of the little dogs) “Little dog’s” (for example: Little dog’s Aodhán) My first name Petra means in Greek “Rock / Stone” and my last name stems from “tree”. This is what I found: Carrick's (anglized) Carraig's (Origin Celtic) Belonging to Carrick = a Crag, Rock, Headland [Gaelic and Irish caraig / carraig]. "an Carraig" - "Stein" / "rock" But can’t translate it to “Little Rock / Stone” “Little Rock’s /Stone’s” “ of the little Rocks / Stones” I found “crann” for “tree” but same problem with translation for “Little tree” “Little tree’s” “... of the little tree” I am still looking for other varieties of my first and last name and combinations! If anybody got any ideas please hand over, I would really appreciate it! I need to ask all of you for help because I prefer the correct irish-gaelic writing and I don’t really have any knowledge, only what I got out of the Internet and from this site! Thank you very much in advance! Greetings from Germany! Petra |
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Earlybird20
Member Username: Earlybird20
Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2009
| Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 07:18 pm: |
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Addition to my post! I have found an article in Wikipedia about Irish last names. The female form of "Ó" is "Ní". Therefore "Aleanbh Ó Madagáin" would be "Aleanbh Ní Madagáin"? I read in there the last name changes according to the prefix. This example was shown: male "Ó Briain" female: "Ní Bhriain" Is there a change for "Madagáin" as well and if yes, how is it written correctly? I could not find it out! Thank you in advance! Greetings Petra (Message edited by earlybird20 on June 27, 2010) |
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Taidhgín
Member Username: Taidhgín
Post Number: 860 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 09:39 am: |
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Ó Madagáin (male); Ní Mhadagáin (unmarried female); Uí Mhadagáin (married female) I doubt if anyone in the island of Ireland would give the name "Alannah" to a child. I know it was supposedly heard from Irish speakers in America who may have used it as a term of affection "Oh, child" but it doesn't fit modern grammar in Irish and while it may sound "Irish" in English it does not seem to have any prevalence in the spoken Irish of today. "Alannah" - A leanbh! (said to a girl child means "Dear child") "A chuisle (mo chroí)" - Dear pulse (of my heart) "Aroon" - A rún - Dear secret (love) The "A" at the beginning of each of those indicates the vocative case used when addressing someone: a chara, a chuidín, a mhúirnín dílis, a stór, etc I doubt if the current bearers of the name Ó Madagáin will be pleased to hear that you associate it with "dog". |
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Suaimhneas
Member Username: Suaimhneas
Post Number: 507 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 01:21 pm: |
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O Madagáin is a surname and, as Taidhgín has suggested, it would be inappropriate (and perhaps disrespectful) to use it as a kennel name for dogs. I'm afraid that the "kennel names" that you have invented make no sense in Irish |
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Curiousfinn
Member Username: Curiousfinn
Post Number: 416 Registered: 08-2008
| Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 10:07 pm: |
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It seems that Carraig Uí (Ní?) Chrainn is only theorizing at the moment. As the dogs have their given names at some point, won't it be easier and more coherent to build the naming scheme like this... Male dog: Seán Mac Briain Ó Crann Péitseog... Female dog: Sinéad Nic Bhriain Ó Crann Péitseog... like Seán, son of Brian from Peachtree. The ending always indicates your kennel name, the middle name is from whom the bearer of the first name descended. OK if this dog named Brian (tsk, tsk) had puppies with a bitch named Máire, both from your kennel, you could perhaps form matronyms to be given for female offspring as well. Only I'm not sure whether matronyms are possible in Irish, but something like this perhaps... (Message edited by curiousfinn on June 28, 2010) Tine, siúil liom!
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Antóin (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 06:55 am: |
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Taidhgín, unfortunately, there are quite a number of kids running around in Ireland answering to the strange name: Alannah |
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Eadaoin
Member Username: Eadaoin
Post Number: 66 Registered: 02-2009
| Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 06:45 am: |
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living in Dublin, I've never actually met an Alannah, in my kids or grandkids generations (or mine). Maybe it's a rural thing? Lots of Saoirse and Tara and Shannon, though ... eadaoin |
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Sneachta
Member Username: Sneachta
Post Number: 5 Registered: 05-2010
| Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 11:42 am: |
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I myself being from Ireland have named my daughter Alanna , and have heard it many times .in my travels around schools. but im unaware of the spelling ... but thats down to personal taste. Not sure why this seems unusual .... |
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Macdara
Member Username: Macdara
Post Number: 143 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 12:02 pm: |
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My mum used to called me and my siblings alanna/ a leanbh all the time.Meaning 'Oh child' as an endearment,or even an expression of exasperation at times.Old timers like us wouldnt conceive of it as a name.I mean you'd hardly call a kid 'Child Murphy'.On the other hand these things are in a state of flux.I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when my English neighbour called her baby girl Kerry.But that was then, and it will be 'reimported' soon enough.We'll all have to lighten up, I guess. |
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Taidhgín
Member Username: Taidhgín
Post Number: 861 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 12:47 pm: |
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I hadn't realised that "Alanna" was now used in Ireland as a personal name. I think it is a very nice name and gives food for thought to the bearer. Firstly that it comes from the Irish language (hint! hint! You should know some Irish) and secondly it is a term of real parental affection. Finally it means literally "Dear child". Viewed grammatically one would expect "A linbh" (pronounced: ah lin'v) but in the vocative case (used when addressing someone) the names of females are not changed (inflected?). So "Siobhán" remains "Siobhán" in "A Shiobhán" but "Ciarán" changes to "A Chiaráin". That might suggest that "A leanbh" and "Alanna" are actually girls' names. Imagine meeting a burly GAA-type called "Alanna". [Are Gaeltacht people discarding these vocative forms -- the tuiseal gairmeach -- as well? Little by little castles are -- demolished. Diaidh ar ndiaidh a leagtar caisleáin.] Sadly, in these days of learner-dominated Irish the terms of endearment are not used: a chuisle, a stór, a mhúirnín, ... They were imaginative and poetic. Worth a second thought. Look them up in Ó Dónaill and look up the words before and after... What other terms of endearment / affection are there? |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 3486 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 02:57 pm: |
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a chroí, a stór, a rún, a thaiscidh... Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Sneachta
Member Username: Sneachta
Post Number: 6 Registered: 05-2010
| Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 03:14 pm: |
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Well Taidgín , i wasnt studying Irish when she was born .. and i guess i never really thought of the connection , but like you say it is food for thought.Its actualy a mixture of me and her moms names, and we First heard in the Name of Rod Stewarts Wifes name,and really liked it a lot, and it also fitted ... so its more appropriate than Fifi Trixibell etc .... |
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Macdara
Member Username: Macdara
Post Number: 145 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 03:52 pm: |
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Alanna,Rod Stewart's missus is from Texas,and so we come full circle.Irish and Scottish Americans using words that connect them to the old country don't worry about the literal meanings too much.Just words that sound pleasing to the ear,like Erin,Iona and so on. Lughaidh what about a mhaoineach? and mo bhúirnin of course. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 3487 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 05:48 pm: |
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"a mhuirnín" I didn't know "a mhaoineach". Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Taidhgín
Member Username: Taidhgín
Post Number: 862 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 09:52 pm: |
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I heard "a mhaoinigh" recently in Cavan. |
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Antóin (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 08:43 pm: |
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According to the CSO, 123 Alanna's were registered in 2009. I dunno, maybe it's a nice name, but it sounds a bit Disney Oirish to me. As do Erin, Ryan and Katelyn. Ach bíodh a rogha fhéin ag gach duine. |
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Macdara
Member Username: Macdara
Post Number: 146 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 07:03 am: |
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Yes,Lughaidh,I should have written 'a mhuirnín'.I always get that wrong because of Baile Bhuirne,which comes from the same root,apparently! Meaning 'beloved' - who is ,in this case,St.Gobnait. I met a Caitlin in my local Centra shop.She told me that name is pronounced 'Kate-Lin'.But maybe she will accept it later.I know I did;I hated this weird sounding name at school,though I was used to it at home.It is actually my middle name and classmates and teachers alike began calling me by my first name: Patrick.Yes,I know....groan. Exactly the same happened to two of my siblings.But now I have reclaimed my identity.Maidir leis an scéal ,i see the two most popular name in Ireland this year are Jack and Sophie.Hm.I guess what we need is for some celeb to have twins and call them Gobnait and Caoilte! |
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Seánw
Member Username: Seánw
Post Number: 635 Registered: 07-2009
| Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 09:09 am: |
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Names come from multiple source in most cases, but individual cases have individual reasons. A particular trend in the US has been Celtic sounding names -- Aiden, Reilley, Mykenzie, etc. The reason could be anything from a celebrity having it, to liking the sound, to liking the meaning. Some make me cringe, some make me happy, and some I hope go away with the other trends. But my name, Seán, was trendy when I was named, and my mom swears she named me after Sean Connery. Luckily I can work with that now that the name is not popular anymore because it is a traditional name, or can be connected in a traditional way. I don't know how to work with Skylar or Bailey or Dakota or Shiloh. As it stands Alanna can be taken as a traditional name and a new name. Alanna in a traditional sense is a feminine form of Alan, which is a saint's name. It is also a phrase used for affection a leanbh. This name I think is traditional in a wholly Irish way. If you look at Irish traditional names, they strike a great balance between native origin and fulfilling the Church's requirement to name one's child after a saint in some way. I can think of others off hand, Áine and Cathal. As for dogs, I think the names above are quite a mouthful. I don't have a knack for this stuff because I've never been big with dogs. I guess you want to be unique. When I think dogs, I think simple names -- Guinness, Shadow, Cujo ... I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.
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Taidhgín
Member Username: Taidhgín
Post Number: 863 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 09:37 am: |
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In our extended family, both sides, we tended to try and honour those who went before us so one of the names chosen for the baby will have been used before in the previous generations: parents, uncles, aunts, or grandparents etc. Yet you want a name that will distinguish this new person from all others. A term of contempt for a person who rejects the culture is a "cúl le cine". That doesn't carry much weight nowadays because television provides numerous alternatives whether in "Neighbours" - "Coronation Street" or whatever. To be honest I don't watch any of them, not even "Ros na Rún". I feel guilty about that. Priests in the local parish did their level best to persuade parents to give a saint's name to the child mostly to no avail. At one time I thought that an intrusion. Now I am not so sure. Is Damien of Molechai (? Leper Colony?) a better role model than some fictional name from a soap opera or a popstar. Has anyone been named "Bono" or "Edge" yet? |
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Sneachta
Member Username: Sneachta
Post Number: 7 Registered: 05-2010
| Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 09:37 am: |
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i hadnt much thought of Irish tradition, Naming, music Sport at the time ,and only got started in Irish and the culture bout 10 years ago. So the name just fitted as we liked it and it was a culmination of both of ours put together. But i now in hindsight and reading the thoughts of a Saints name and the the thought that it is a feminine form of my own name and a leanbh , it all worked out rather well lol , but it dosent matter to me iv always loved the name and "Its not the name that makes the Person its the person that makes the name " Mar shampla Hitler Elvis Pele |
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Suaimhneas
Member Username: Suaimhneas
Post Number: 510 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 10:48 am: |
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quote:Has anyone been named "Bono" or "Edge" yet? Not even Bono or the Edge have, as they are Paul and David respectively. Perhaps if they joined daltaí.com they could log on as Maith and Imeall |
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Taidhgín
Member Username: Taidhgín
Post Number: 864 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 01:20 pm: |
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Sin é go díreach. Ní mór smaoineamh sula dtuga tú ainm ar dhuine./That's it exactly. One must think before calling someone a name. Ní mór (duit) = (You) must smaoineamh = think (verbal noun of "smaoinigh") sula = before (verbal particle like "ní" - "nach" - "má" - "mura" etc followed here by the modh foshuiteach - I don't know the English for modh foshuiteach.) tabhair ainm ar ... call (lit. give a name on) |
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Seánw
Member Username: Seánw
Post Number: 636 Registered: 07-2009
| Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 01:30 pm: |
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quote:Priests in the local parish did their level best to persuade parents to give a saint's name to the child mostly to no avail. At one time I thought that an intrusion. Now I am not so sure. Is Damien of Molechai (? Leper Colony?) a better role model than some fictional name from a soap opera or a popstar. Has anyone been named "Bono" or "Edge" yet? I think you have to think about the child. Just because you name your child Razzledazzle doesn't mean your child is going to fit well with such an "artistic" name. I think there is enough in the "traditional" category to have a wide range of expression. The saint's name thing was almost always about calling down the patronage of that saint upon your child, and secondarily to set them as a model of life. Is there a Dylan or Ashlyn in heaven? I don't know. But also on the other side I wouldn't name my child Innocent just because there is someone in heaven named Innocent. As for Hitler, Elvis, etc. It's not that the name makes the person, but that the name carries such a reputation, as formerly the saint's name did. So "Hi, my name's Hitler Petersen" would immediately cause someone pause. My wife and I set up a simple method. One English name and one Irish name. Saint's names. One with some familial connection. Can't have any negative connotations that we could thing of. For instance, we originally liked Osanna as a name, but my wife said that it sounded too much like Osama. Oh well! I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.
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Taidhgín
Member Username: Taidhgín
Post Number: 865 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 07:13 pm: |
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Our local cancer specialist is from Egypt and bears the name Osama. I say "Salaam aleikum" to him and he replies "Go raibh maith agat". Incidentally Barak means "blessing" or "beannacht". |
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Macdara
Member Username: Macdara
Post Number: 147 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Friday, July 02, 2010 - 07:20 am: |
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I often wondered why so many 'Con's of my acquaintance would say 'of course my real name is Cornelius,Con is just the Irish version of it'.I went to the trouble of checking upon this - and other names -and could find no connections most of the time. I started with the name Con ,of course,because it is so ancient.Con Cé Cathach is our remote,semi mythical ancestor from the 1st Century AD,for heaven's sake.Why would he need a Latin name when Ireland was not christianised for nearly 500 years after his time? It used to be thought that British Army recruitment officers were to blame for these cod translations.Faced with some lad called Conchubhar yer man says 'right,I spose that must be Charly then.' I bet that happened often enough but it doesn't explain all our mistranslations.It would appear we have a plenitude of saints the Vatican has not got round to recognising.Or native names that have not been sanctified perhaps.So,in the case of my elderly friend,Con, it really does say Cornelius on his baptism certificate.Usually Irish names are given as translations a Bible name which sounds similar. Thus ( in cork anyhow) Donncha = Denis or Dyonisus(!) Diarmaid = Jeremiah Tadgh = Timothy Cathal = Charles The last name isnt biblical but a very common misnomer. |
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James_murphy
Member Username: James_murphy
Post Number: 463 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Friday, July 02, 2010 - 08:20 am: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ailbe_of_Emly It seems Elvis is a traditional saint's name too :) Séamus Ó Murċaḋa Inis fá réim i gcéin san Iarṫar tá Dá ngoirid luċt léiġinn Tír Éireann fialṁar cáil
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Ganainm (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Friday, July 02, 2010 - 05:03 pm: |
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Always thought that Con was a nickname for Cornelius, something like Pat for Patrick. I knew several men with the name and they were Con, Connie or Coneen |
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Macdara
Member Username: Macdara
Post Number: 148 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Friday, July 02, 2010 - 07:34 pm: |
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But it aint so ,ganainm.And just to mix things up even further,the lads called Con -Cornelius as they insist - are often known as Neily.Or even Neilus for 'short'. I read a little booklet from a tourist shop recently which 'explained' that Niall was an Irish version of Nigel! But that was in Killarney,so we must make allowances.Slán tamall. |
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Brídmhór
Member Username: Brídmhór
Post Number: 54 Registered: 04-2009
| Posted on Friday, July 02, 2010 - 08:50 pm: |
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"a leanbh" is a very common form of endearment in Conamara. It's said to adults as well as children whether you are related to them or not. Only yesterday a man called me that and I'm nearing 50. I think it's nice that new names can evolve from Irish. And what's better than a term like that. |
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Ganainm (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Friday, July 02, 2010 - 09:40 pm: |
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just to clear things up,the lads called Con weren't translating their name as Cornelius - that was their given name and it was shortened to Con. |
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Macdara
Member Username: Macdara
Post Number: 149 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 10:58 am: |
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But why were they called Cornelius,ganainm? I have travelled widely enough in Europe and the States: I have never met a Cornelius who wasnt from Cork or Kerry.And it's not just Con.I have met Conors who told me the same tale.One of whom was a great scholar of Irish.Conchubar to many but 'Neil' to many more. And ,if Cornelius is the given name,why shorten it to Con.Why not Corny? It is all quite mad post colonial inferiority stuff I'm afraid.But dream on a leanbh. |
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Rothaí
Member Username: Rothaí
Post Number: 58 Registered: 04-2010
| Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 11:51 am: |
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In the States, where there isn't a trace of post-colonial inferiority left, there's the famous Connie Mack of baseball legend - he wasn't from Cork or Kerry - but his given name was Cornelius McGillicuddy. Maybe his parents were from Cork or Kerry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connie_Mack_(baseball) (Message edited by rothaí on July 03, 2010) Fáilte roimh cheartúcháin, go raibh maith agaibh.
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Macdara
Member Username: Macdara
Post Number: 150 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 01:15 pm: |
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Gan amhras,rothaí,and why wouldn't they be? After all the great mountains in Kerry are called McGillicuddy's reeks. |
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Ganainm (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 02:57 pm: |
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They were called Cornelius because at the time not too many people in Ireland or here in the US gave Irish names to their children. Remember all the Marys, Catherines, Johns and Williams? |
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Ormondo
Member Username: Ormondo
Post Number: 665 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 07:06 pm: |
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I think it's nice that new names can evolve from Irish. And what's better than a term like that. Exactly, just like the old ones did. What about getting it a wee bit closer to the Irish pronunciation: "Alyannah"? Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 3491 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 07:10 pm: |
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Normally there's no y sound in "a leanbh"... The l is single slender : "uh lah-nuh" (or "uh lah-noo"), roughly, because the l is lenited. Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Earlybird20
Member Username: Earlybird20
Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2009
| Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 12:20 pm: |
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Hello to all! First of all thank you very much for all of your replies! Beforehand, those names are only for DOGS and not for people! Usually they are only in the Pedigree and most owners call them a different name anyways! Like one of my dogs is called with first name "Billie Jean" and I call her "Neela", my other female's first name is "Pandora Pearl" and I call her "Nora"! What I am looking for is a very unique kennel name together with an unique first name for the puppy as well!! There are many english, german or french kennel names within the breed of my dogs and I would like to have an unique name! I also have found some in my own language german to choose from. Why not give endearments as first names, that only shows a lot of affection in my understanding! @ Taidhgín Thanks for the correct grammar! I found the translation "little dog" in many resources on the net, therefore it was not me who associated it. This is one of them which I found: Last name: Madine / Maddigan This name is an anglicized form of the Gaelic O Madaidhin which means 'the descendant of Madaidhin' - a personal name from the diminutive of 'mada' or 'madra' meaning a hound or dog. The Gaelic 'O' means grandson or male descendant. The more usual anglicization of the name is Madden, and the prefix 'O' was dropped in Ireland during the centuries of English rule and did not share in the widespread resumption of 'O' and 'Mac' (a son) since the Gaelic revival. The Maddes are most numerous in counties Galway and Offaly. Modern spelling variations of the name include Madine, Madden, (O)Madagane, Maddigan, with the Gaelic Ó Madagáin. ********************************************************** @ Suaimhneas Kennel names are mostely products of fantasy, where people live at or have a personal objection to like translations of first or last names! I know that Ó Madagáin is a surname. And if I use it as a surname for my dogs what should be disrespectful about it, since it has the meaning "little dog"? I am very respectful to the irish language wanting to have the correct spelling and grammar! Any other names I have thought about are either coming from my first or last name, because I want to have a certain meaning! ******************************************************** @ Curiousfinn Thanks for your answer! You seem to understand what I was talking about, thanks for your explanation, they are very helpful and will be taking into consideration!!! And I noticed you remember me asking for "Peachtree" last year! :-) ... I had to drop this in irish-gaelic because the pronounciation is too rough and nobody I asked liked it! ******************************************************* If anybody can give me some translations of the "Tree" / "Rock" varieties as I was given them on top, it would be very nice of all of you!!! Thank you for all the assistance in this matter!!! Petra PS: I call my dogs sometimes "Ratpack / Rat Pack" ... :-) could this possibly be translated into irish-gaelic??? |
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Curiousfinn
Member Username: Curiousfinn
Post Number: 417 Registered: 08-2008
| Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 07:18 pm: |
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A Pheitrea ;B) I was planning to write some examples for stone/rock/tree when I posted, but back then I felt as if I was in a hurry and hadn't got the time... and then, the thread appeared to grow all four legs, and I stood back to see if it starts barking, LOL! rock = carraig => Mac|Ó Carraige / Nic|Ní|Uí Charraige tree = crann => Mac|Ó Crainn / Nic|Ní|Uí Chrainn There are so many forms of theoretically the same name, that a learner gets easily confused. Some people lenite, some put it in genitive, some do both, some do neither. Regardless of whether it complies to the "official guidelines" or not. Nowadays you could meet so many, many fine people (men and women) under the last names built like MacDonald, O'Donnell, Donaldson etc... the Nic and other feminine varieties seem to be under heavy decline. This is because of anglicisation of Goidelic names, where the Mac and Ó forms got far more recognition, the fada over Ó was moved aside, and hyphenation was removed. Well, not even the best intentions always lead to a desirable result. Also note that ó is the of/from preposition. Therefore it is a somewhat safe choice for female offspring too - it would technically translate to a child being "from" a parent, not selective to the gender of either. Also it is possible for just informing that the child descends from a cerain family, not a parent of a certain name. Mac and Nic would be safe for son and daughter respectively - that would allow you to mark their descent one generation up without going into their marital status. Also I don't see why you couldn't technically use matronyms instead of patronyms if you need to. While it is good that you try to stick to traditions, I think artistic freedom should be allowed. And finally, it seems a couple Finns have added their dogs and bitches to Facebook with the last name "Koiranen". While that is possible as a person's last name, it means just that, "Little Dog". I doubt that anyone with that as a last name will be upset for someone using it for a dog's name. Back in the day when I became a member, a couple other members helped me find an Irish name for myself. That would be Seán Ó Sprusaigh. "John from Spruce Grove". Although my last name originally comes from Polish, and is not related to trees at all as far as I know, it has been replaced with a roughly similar Finnish word. A funny thing is that this is my mother's last name that I'm currently using. My father's name was related to pines but we gave it up after mom and dad divorced. My school mates had hard time believing that I really switched from the pine grove to the spruce grove. Tine, siúil liom!
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