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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (May-June) » Archive through June 19, 2010 » "Rinne sé gadaí de féin" « Previous Next »

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Sineadw
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Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 406
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 04:19 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"He made a thief (out) of himself". Was just wondering earlier about the 'de' part of this. Why is it not 'dó' féin?

Any ideas le bhur dtoil?

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Taidhgín
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Username: Taidhgín

Post Number: 828
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 09:47 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"de" can mean "of"
"do" generally means "for"

You could say "Rinne sé císte milis dó féin" He made a sweet cake for himself (alone).

and "rinne sé bosca d'adhmad" He made a box [out] of timber."

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Sineadw
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Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 410
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, June 04, 2010 - 08:24 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'm okay with the difference between de and do. With rinne sé gadaí de féin it's more that I was wondering why there wasn't de + é = dó. You can't write Rinne sé gadaí 'de é' féin, so I guess I'm really trying to figure out why the pronoun é hasn't been compounded with de here. It's left out. It's the first time I've seen that.

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Taidhgín
Member
Username: Taidhgín

Post Number: 830
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, June 04, 2010 - 09:44 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I think the word "féin" is functioning as a pronoun here.

Ó Dónaill introduces it with: "emphatic and reflexive adjective and pronoun" Page 533

Anyway "de" is the third person masculine of the prepositional pronoun "díom"

de gives
díom, díot, de, di, dinn, díbh, díobh. There's your "de" = "de + é"

do gives
dom, duit, dó, di (pronounced "daoi" in my dialect), dúinn, díbh (pronounced "daoibh" in my dialect), dóibh.

With "de" all the "ds" are slender.

With "do" (in North Mayo) all the "ds" are broad.

Now let's have fun: what of other dialects? I know that in some dialects they don't even have these words.

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Sineadw
Member
Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 413
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, June 04, 2010 - 10:12 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

My other reply went amú. Was just saying thanks, I actually had thought that de and do shared the same 3rd person masculine : dó. So that's where I was going wrong. I've had that one wrong all this time, so it's a breakthrough :)



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