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Seamás91
Member Username: Seamás91
Post Number: 236 Registered: 10-2009
| Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 05:03 am: |
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I want to say 'it was said'. I have noticed that the autonomous verb 'Duradh' fits the bill. However, I have also noticed 'Bhi se raite' used also. My question is can I us these two phrases to same the one thing? 'mar ná beidh ár leithidí arís ann' -Tomás O'Croitháin (An t-Oiléanach)
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9931 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 06:22 am: |
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It depends. They're are not completely equivalent. If somebody specific said something, use dúradh. If it was "the talk of the town" use bhí sé ráite. |
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Taidhgín
Member Username: Taidhgín
Post Number: 805 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 08:14 am: |
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Even those of us who use Irish every day can fall into a number of pitfalls when we use the aidiacht briathartha and the briathar saor (autonomous). Sometimes one sees in reference to a book "Bhí sé foilsithe 2009." If that means "It had already been published by the year 2009" that is OK but if it first appeared in the shops in 2009 the briathar saor should have been used. So the book was published in 2009 would be "Foilsíodh an leabhar 2009." (Why no prepositions etc to garnish the 2009? I think 2009 is treated as an adverb and the meaning is clear.) So to answer your question if the meaning is "It was said (by someone whom we need not refer to now)" use "Dúradh". Avoid "bhí sé ráite" unless the emphasis is on what had been said. Bhí sé ráite aige sular chuimhnigh sé air féin. He had it said before he thought of himself. The autonomous verb is a very distinctive feature of Irish and should be used. The English construction "It was said" is a trap for the unwary, a pitfall for the learner unfamiliar with written and spoken Irish and relying solely on the dictionary and the grammar book. Sadly as bilingualism progresses and English becomes dominant in the Gaeltacht such distinctive features are likely to be lost. Bí san airdeall. Seachain an botún seo. |
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Seánw
Member Username: Seánw
Post Number: 615 Registered: 07-2009
| Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 12:46 pm: |
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I also think the verbal adjective is meant to be used only for completed states. I think in the context of beginning a sentence, "dúradh go..." would work for the proverbial use of "it was said that ...". At the end, "bhí sé ráite" would be better as an ending thought, placed after a comma, kind of like what Aonghus says about "the talk of the town". I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 3444 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 01:35 pm: |
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In Donegal : húradh go... Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Seamás91
Member Username: Seamás91
Post Number: 237 Registered: 10-2009
| Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 03:23 pm: |
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Go raibh maith agaibh. 'mar ná beidh ár leithidí arís ann' -Tomás O'Croitháin (An t-Oiléanach)
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