mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (May-June) » Archive through June 19, 2010 » A little help... « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Seamás91
Member
Username: Seamás91

Post Number: 236
Registered: 10-2009


Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 05:03 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I want to say 'it was said'. I have noticed that the autonomous verb 'Duradh' fits the bill. However, I have also noticed 'Bhi se raite' used also. My question is can I us these two phrases to same the one thing?

'mar ná beidh ár leithidí arís ann'
-Tomás O'Croitháin (An t-Oiléanach)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 9931
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 06:22 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It depends. They're are not completely equivalent. If somebody specific said something, use dúradh. If it was "the talk of the town" use bhí sé ráite.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Taidhgín
Member
Username: Taidhgín

Post Number: 805
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 08:14 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Even those of us who use Irish every day can fall into a number of pitfalls when we use the aidiacht briathartha and the briathar saor (autonomous).

Sometimes one sees in reference to a book "Bhí sé foilsithe 2009." If that means "It had already been published by the year 2009" that is OK but if it first appeared in the shops in 2009 the briathar saor should have been used. So the book was published in 2009 would be "Foilsíodh an leabhar 2009." (Why no prepositions etc to garnish the 2009? I think 2009 is treated as an adverb and the meaning is clear.)

So to answer your question if the meaning is "It was said (by someone whom we need not refer to now)" use "Dúradh".

Avoid "bhí sé ráite" unless the emphasis is on what had been said. Bhí sé ráite aige sular chuimhnigh sé air féin. He had it said before he thought of himself.

The autonomous verb is a very distinctive feature of Irish and should be used. The English construction "It was said" is a trap for the unwary, a pitfall for the learner unfamiliar with written and spoken Irish and relying solely on the dictionary and the grammar book. Sadly as bilingualism progresses and English becomes dominant in the Gaeltacht such distinctive features are likely to be lost. Bí san airdeall. Seachain an botún seo.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Seánw
Member
Username: Seánw

Post Number: 615
Registered: 07-2009


Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 12:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I also think the verbal adjective is meant to be used only for completed states. I think in the context of beginning a sentence, "dúradh go..." would work for the proverbial use of "it was said that ...". At the end, "bhí sé ráite" would be better as an ending thought, placed after a comma, kind of like what Aonghus says about "the talk of the town".

I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3444
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 01:35 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

In Donegal : húradh go...

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Seamás91
Member
Username: Seamás91

Post Number: 237
Registered: 10-2009


Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 03:23 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go raibh maith agaibh.

'mar ná beidh ár leithidí arís ann'
-Tomás O'Croitháin (An t-Oiléanach)



©Daltaí na Gaeilge