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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (May-June) » Archive through May 18, 2010 » Tigh again! « Previous Next »

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Sineadw
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Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 346
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 09:47 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'm back to this one again!

Just wondering, can I use 'bhí mé tigh Mháire' for 'I was at Máire's house' or would you just use 'tigh Mháire' if it was a pub?

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Wee_falorie_man
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Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 216
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 10:08 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tigh is not just used when referring to a pub; it is the normal, everyday word for "house" in Munster Irish.

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Sineadw
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Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 347
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 10:18 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

So does that mean Munster speakers would say 'bhí mé tigh Pheadair'? (I was in Peadar's house?)

(Message edited by sineadw on May 07, 2010)

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Wee_falorie_man
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Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 217
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 11:58 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Do bhíos sa tigh Pheadair.

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Sineadw
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Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 348
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 12:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ah! So you put 'sa' before tigh? If you were saying 'I was in Peadar's house' I would have thought 'i' instead of 'sa'! This is confusing ná 'fuil :D

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Cionaodh
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Username: Cionaodh

Post Number: 741
Registered: 05-2005


Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 12:20 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I'd say "i dtigh" instead of "sa tigh".

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Wee_falorie_man
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Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 218
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 12:31 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

er … Why is it "i dtigh" instead of "sa tigh"?

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 9863
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 01:04 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

can I use 'bhí mé tigh Mháire' for 'I was at Máire's house'



Yes. Níl gá le aon fhocal eile. Ach dá mbeadh ceann in úsáid agam, "i" a bheadh agam seachas "sa"

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Sineadw
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Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 350
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 01:38 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cúlabuaile! I have something in my head that was saying teach would be used for someone's house, and tigh for the pub! But thanks can see now how tigh is used for both contexts!

I think they use 'teach' in Donegal though- but not sure.

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Cionaodh
Member
Username: Cionaodh

Post Number: 742
Registered: 05-2005


Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 01:53 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

er … Why is it "i dtigh" instead of "sa tigh"?

Good question, one for which I have no ready answer . . . I just learnt it that way without asking about it.

Admittedly unscientific, but "i dtigh" wins the Googlefight:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22i+dtigh%22&word2=%22sa+ tigh%22

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Wee_falorie_man
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Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 219
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 02:01 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thanks, Cionaodh!

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Cionaodh
Member
Username: Cionaodh

Post Number: 743
Registered: 05-2005


Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 02:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Now you've got me analysing my Irish, a WFM.

There are several ways to make a noun "definite". One way, with which even beginners are familiar, is to add the definite article "an" (which is also hidden in today's word "sa").

Another way is to attribute the noun to someone, in this case, "Peadar".

So "i dtigh Pheadair" isn't "in a house of Peter's", but rather "in (the) house of Peter" (i.e. "in Peter's house")

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Wee_falorie_man
Member
Username: Wee_falorie_man

Post Number: 220
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 03:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

hmm …
Then how is "i dtigh Pheadair" different from "sa tigh Pheadair"?
When do you use "sa tigh" instead of "i dtigh"?

(Message edited by wee_falorie_man on May 07, 2010)

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 9867
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 04:10 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cé tá sa tigh?
Cé tá i dtigh Pheadair?

For some reason, you couldn't switch sa and i in the above without it feeling awkward to me. I think definiteness is the key as Cionaodh said - you wouldn't say "An tigh Pheadair" either.

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Dahtet
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Username: Dahtet

Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 04:12 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

You don't use "sa tigh Pheadair" at all, it's bad grammar. It's a "double definite"."
"tigh Pheadair" on its own = "the house of Peadar". So when you put another "the" in by using "sa" it's like saying
"the the house of Peadar" with a double definite article. So always "i dtigh Pheadair!"



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