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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (March-April) » Archive through April 30, 2010 » Faoin am a chríochnóigh/gcríochnóidh tú leis « Previous Next »

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Sineadw
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Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 324
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 10:04 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cé acu ceann a chairde??

Faoin am a chríochnoigh/a gcríochnóidh tú leis

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 9830
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 10:19 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá an chéad ceann litrithe mícheart.

Seachas sin, is an chéad ceann litrithe mar
"Faoin am a chríochnóidh tú leis" a bheadh agamsa; sílimse nach bhfuil an leagan uruithe mícheart, áfach.

Ach is mó seans arís go mbeadh rud éigin mar

"Faoin am a bhíonn críochnaithe agat leis" scríofa agam!

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Sineadw
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Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 325
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 10:45 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Sorry I was in a massive hurry writing that, that first spelling- now where did I get that! Sorry!

Thanks a thousand x1000 for clearing that up :)

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Mbm
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Username: Mbm

Post Number: 280
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 06:00 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Go caighdeánach, "faoin am a chríochnóidh tú" an leagan ceart. Is é sin, coibhneas díreach a bhíonn tar éis "am".

Seans, áfach, gur coibhneas indíreach atá i roinnt de na canúintí. Sa mhéid sin, mar a deir Aonghus, ní gá go mbeadh an leagan eile mícheart ach oiread.

Agus aontaímse le hAonghus chomh maith gur seans gur fearr an leagan timchainteach ó thaobh stíle de, ach amháin go gcloífinn leis an aimsir fháistineach san fhochlásal: "faoin am a *bheidh* críochnaithe agat leis".

Sa Bhéarla, bheadh an aimsir láithreach i gceist in abairtí den saghas seo: "by the time you *are* finished", ach tá sé sin rud beag míloighciúil, má dhéanann tú do mhachnamh air, mar is don am atá le teacht atá an fochlásal ag tagairt, ní don am i láthair. Bíonn an Ghaeilge (agus neart teangacha Eorpacha eile, go bhfios dom) níos loighciúla i gcásanna mar seo agus cloíonn sí leis an aimsir fháistineach: "faoin am a *bheidh* críochnaithe agat".

(Tá eisceacht amháin ann: an aimsir (gnáth)láithreach a úsáidtear tar éis "má" fiú más ag tagairt don am atá le teacht atá tú: "má *bhíonn* tú anseo amárach" seachas "má *bheidh...". Seo an t-aon eisceacht amháin dá bhfuil ann.)

Cén aimsir a úsáidfí sa Ghearmáinis, a Aonghus?

Mo bhlag sa seanchló Gaelach:
www.cainteoir.com

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 9838
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 06:09 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Aontaíom leat:

"Faoin am a bheidh críochnaithe agat leis" níos fearr

quote:

Cén aimsir a úsáidfí sa Ghearmáinis, a Aonghus?



Ceist mhaith. Níl mé cinnte.

"Bis du damit fertig bist" a ritheann liom.

Is dóigh liom go mba ghá an abairt iomlán a thiontú, le bheith soiléir.

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Mbm
Member
Username: Mbm

Post Number: 283
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 06:43 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá suim agam sa cheist seo. In abairt ar nós:

"Nuair a thiocfaidh tú abhaile, íosfaidh muid dinnéar"

Tá:

- fáistineach sa Ghaeilge (nuair a thiocfaidh tú...)
- fáistineach sa tSeicis (až přijdeš...)
- láithreach sa Bhéarla (when you come...)

Céard a bheadh sa Ghearmáinis? Céard a bheadh sa Fhraincis? Céard a bheadh in aon teanga eile dá bhfuil ar eolas ag aon duine eile anseo?

Mo bhlag sa seanchló Gaelach:
www.cainteoir.com

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David_w
Member
Username: David_w

Post Number: 193
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 07:40 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

French has the logical future: quand tu arriveras.

Finnish has no future tense!!

Russian: когда он дойдёт (future - perfective aspect)

Spanish: cuando llegará (future)

Dála an sgéil, is go minic a deireann na daoine iasachta "when I will arrive", agus mar sin tagann linn é a thuisgint, cé ná fuil sé ceart.

Luasgann an tAṫair Peadar mo ṡaoġal!.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 9840
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 07:46 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Nuair a thiocfaidh tú abhaile, íosfaidh muid dinnéar"

Tá sé ag dul rite orm Gearmáinis nadúrtha a chuir air seo.

Wir essen sobald du nach Hause kommst



Sobald du nach Hause kommst, essen wir.

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Mbm
Member
Username: Mbm

Post Number: 286
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 07:55 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

An láithreach míloighciúil atá sa Ghearmáinis, mar sin.

Dála an scéil, bhí mé ag blagáil ar an cheist chéanna le déanaí: http://multikulti.wordpress.com/2009/08/19/call-me-if-you-will-change-your-mind/

Mo bhlag sa seanchló Gaelach:
www.cainteoir.com

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David_w
Member
Username: David_w

Post Number: 195
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 08:00 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Mbm, that was an interesting blog post. But I think Irish has the illogical present sometimes too. You noticed that after nuair, Irish uses the future. But not after má.

The sentence on your blog site was: "If you see the doctor, tell him I was looking for him".

PS: I've now read further down in your blog post, and seen that you've covered this point. I had only read a few lines at the top when I posted this.

In Irish this is: má chíonn tú an dochtúir, abair leis go rabhas-sa á lorg.

(Message edited by david_w on April 29, 2010)

Luasgann an tAṫair Peadar mo ṡaoġal!.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 9841
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 08:02 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

An láithreach míloighciúil atá sa Ghearmáinis, mar sin



Ná glac le m'fhocal. Mar a deirim, nílim cinnte. Ní sintéiseoir ró mhaith mé. (Chonac an alt úd nuair a scríobh tú ar dtús é)

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Hugo
Member
Username: Hugo

Post Number: 51
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 07:40 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

David, in this context - not " cuando llegarás" but "cuando llegues" (subjunctive).

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David_w
Member
Username: David_w

Post Number: 219
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 08:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Hugo, I should not have ventured into Spanish - it is 23 years since I last studied any Spanish!!

Luasgann an tAṫair Peadar mo ṡaoġal!.

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David_w
Member
Username: David_w

Post Number: 220
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 08:04 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I think some explanation of when to use the conditional tense is badly needed in Irish - there are clearly many cases that are non-intuitive to people who aren't Irish. Part of the reason I downloaded Filppula's book on Hiberno-English was to try and figure out how tense usage in Hiberno-English relates to Irish and why Irish people are happier with tense usage in Irish than I am. But I haven't had time to read that book yet.

Luasgann an tAṫair Peadar mo ṡaoġal!.



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