I am looking to have the following phrase translated for a tattoo to honor my Irish heritage:

"My family is my life"

Thank you!

"Family" always opens a can of worms around here.

Do you mean your children or your extended family, including parents, siblings etc?

Mo Chlann mo shaol

could mean only your children

You could use the word "Fine" to mean your "people"

M'Fhine mo shaol

Wait for proofreaders

Aonghus is right. There are numerous words for "family" each conveying a precise but different meaning. Sadly in many a child's classroom ignorance reigns and only one Irish word survives the destruction. Hearing an eight-year old refer to "mo chlann" is ridiculous. An impossibility.

"Mo chlann" means "my family" when a father or mother speaks referring to their children. So "mo chlann" means "my children".

A child in the classroom should refer to "mo mhuintir" meaning "all those related to me" or "an teaghlach s'againne" meaning "our household" would be better.

I suggest you hold off on the tattoo until you have learnt enough Irish to know exactly the meaning of whatever you decide to publish on yourself.

Let me add: getting a tattoo dishonours your heritage. It does not honour it at all. You degrade your heritage by tattoing your body with words you don't understand. If you want to honour your heritage LEARN IRISH.

Nach ait an tuairim é sin? Sin do thuairim amháin David_w. Ná bíodh ag stocaireacht agus ag brú do thuairimí ar dhaoine eile. Cuireann sé fearg orm nuair a chloisim a leithéad. Ró-fhada a bhíodh a leithéad ar súil i measc lucht foghtlamtha/cainte na gaeilge. Ní chabhraíonn sé cás na gaeilge in aon chor.

Learn to speak some Irish and you will create a beautiful tattoo on your heart and soul and will give the same to all to whom you speak. This is perhaps the greatest honor you can give your people and heritage.

Faberm

Wow! I've always wondered why this forum has so few inquiries/answers about tattoos, while IrishGaelicTranslator.com seems to have little else. Guess I know now! :-)

To be fair, Linda, David Webb is new here. I don't recall seeing this kind of hostility to tattoos from members of longer standing. (And I number Faberm among those members; if he had strong objections to Irish tattoos on non-Irish-speakers before, then I don't remember him expressing them.)

Domhnaillín, realistically speaking, people on this and other forums will have varying opinions on the "tokenism" of tattoos - this has been discussed exhaustively on IGT - where long-standing forum members have expressed their deprecation of the idea of tattooing your body with words you don't understand, ostensibly as a way of celebrating your heritage - but then the same people have also said that they value the practice opportunity provided by the challenge of trying to do the translations. I don't see why uniformity of opinion needs to be demanded everywhere - 百花齐放，百家争鸣! I think there are fewer tattoo requests here, not because forum members are hostile to tattoos, but because the forum has a different feel and purpose. Daltaí = Students of Irish = tending more towards helping people who are trying to learn Irish. As far as I know, tattoo requests are welcome on Daltaí, but much of the conversation is directly towards **actually learning Irish**.

I'm not "demanding uniformity", David, merely stating an observation in order to correct what I perceive as a misapprehension on Linda's part.

As Liam says, hold any opinion you want, but don't feel you need to express it--particularly in such a confrontational manner. Ní fheictear domsa go bhfuil aon tairbhe as tatú i dteanga ná fuil agat in aon chor, ach níl a leithéid ardmheasa agam orm féin go measaim gur mian le duine gan aon aithne aige orm sin a chlos.

>>>Ní fheictear domsa go bhfuil aon tairbhe as tatú i dteanga ná fuil agat in aon chor

Yes, my thoughts entirely.

>>>níl a leithéid ardmheasa agam orm féin go measaim gur mian le duine gan aon aithne aige orm sin a chlos

But by the same token, I am not obliged to try and translate for tattoos. My ability is too low to do so well anyway, but I don't have to participate in tattoo translations.

>>>don't feel you need to express it--particularly in such a confrontational manner

I think if you read my original comments you will see that I didn't.

Look! Domhnaillín, if I am kicked off the forum for the 20th time - so be it. You seem to think I have insulted a poster here - I haven't, but I did react to the claim that a tattoo on the body in a language not understood by the wearer "honours the Irish heritage". No, it doesn't.

We are losing the ability in society to accept diversity of views (see "The Closing of the American Mind"). It seems like "countercultural" views are mandatory - but I am not signed up to them. Don't get me onto to the subject of "eyebrow piercing" either - whether ostensibly to honour the Irish heritage or not!

In the end, I have tried to make a positive contribution here, but if in the end I will always run into the synthetic rage of the liberal left, then I will not be able to stay. I am largely at a level in Irish where I can be autonomous in my studies.

A tattoo could be seen as a walking advertisement for the Irish language :)
Who knows, even if the bearer is never inspired to learn the language himself it could spark the interest of a friend or acquaintance.

Yes, James Murphy, it could. That point has been made on IGT.

quote:

But by the same token, I am not obliged to try and translate for tattoos. My ability is too low to do so well anyway, but I don't have to participate in tattoo translations.

And someone said you were obliged? I admit, I fail to understand your outrage here. Someone posted a request for a tattoo translation. Recognising that there's no obligation for me to respond, I ignored it--as did countless other members.

quote:

I did react to the claim that a tattoo on the body in a language not understood by the wearer "honours the Irish heritage". No, it doesn't.

Mar dúirt Liam, níl hé sin ach do thuairim. Níl ann ráiteas fíorais ar a bhonn go bhféadtar an t-argóint atá aige a bhréagnú.

"Confrontational" is in the eyes of the beholder, but where I come from telling someone that they're "dishonouring" and "degrading" their heritage comes across as an attempt to pick a fight. Where do you come from that it doesn't?

If you really feel you need to express your views about body modification on this forum, then it would've been more respectful of our Guest to start a new thread. That way, he could read it if the debate interested him and ignore if it didn't. He came here for assistance, not an argument.

This from IGT:
"A few words about tattoo translations and the like
by nighean-neonach on Thu 2008-03-20, 15:42

I will not do any Gaelic translations for tattoos, wedding rings, valentine cards, proposals, gravestones, or other such things.

No, I'm not being mean on purpose. And I'm not claiming a language for myself, denying other people access to it, etc. - quite the contrary.

Gaelic is a language on the verge of extinction, despite all the political babble and language planning, or maybe rather because of it. No governement scheme can save this language - only people can. People who speak it, proudly and naturally, in the street, at school, to their children.

I am happy about every person who is learning Gaelic, I am happy to give advice and support to learners, I am happy to chat in Gaelic with people all around the world.

But: I've been hanging around Gaelic forums for years. I have hardly ever seen one of those tattoo people staying for long (most did not even stay to say thanks) and really beginning to learn the language. None of the intermediate and advanced learners I know came to Gaelic through a tattoo translation. None of the fluent speakers I know, let alone the native Gaels from Rubha Robhanais to Bagh a' Chaisteil, sports a tattoo with teenie-girl-style poetry in Gaelic.

So, when it comes to dedicating some of my free time to the support of this language, it's a simple question: What will be of more use to the Gaelic cause and community? Translating kitsch poetry for a person who will probably never ever set foot into the Gaidhealtachd? Or giving grammar and reading tips to learners who are eager to improve their skills? It's quite clear, I suppose.

Maybe Daniel can make this sticky. I'm not going to say any more on the whole topic, and will ignore all further translation requests from non-learners along the above mentioned lines."

Domhnaillín, why create an argument? In case you're under the misapprehension I created one, let me clarify--you are trying to create one. I don't understand your outrage here - it is as if the merest expression of dissent from the counterculture entitles you to declare a flamewar. I did not insult the OP. I said tattoos dishonour the heritage because this is the precise opposite of the claim that they "honour" it. My 3-line post disagreeing with the OP could not be overlooked - no, it had to be turned into a major thing - something like a Maoist 2-line struggle.

I know you're going to come back and back and back keeping any discussion alive until I am forced out of the forum - I have seen this tactic over and over again on Daltai. I've seen this left-wing outrage before on Daltai, where some sanctimonious forum member converts a 3-line statement of an opposing view into a 10-page flamewar that will not be let go of till the dissenter is driven out. I'm just surprised you're the one doing it - I had expected Kenneth Peterson or Nicole Apostola to pile in determinedly by now (Nicole - you're missing an opportunity for synthetic outrage - I'd get in now if I were you).

Well I had a nice few days here and got some questions answered by Aonghus and others - so I benefited in some way from it. But it is simpler for everyone concerned if I just bow out now. Numerous people who made a positive contribution here have been driven off the forum, so I'm not the first. I won't be replying any more, but please can the Powers that Be delete my username so I won't be tempted to use it! Thanks for letting me take part for a while.

Wow. I've seen my share of flounce posts in *cough* years on the Intarwebs and that one is a mini-masterpiece. Brava!

So, did our OP ever get his question answered? Or did he just slink off to IGT on account of DRAMA!?

quote:

You seem to think I have insulted a poster here - I haven't, but I did react to the claim that a tattoo on the body in a language not understood by the wearer "honours the Irish heritage". No, it doesn't. ... In the end, I have tried to make a positive contribution here, but if in the end I will always run into the synthetic rage of the liberal left, then I will not be able to stay. I am largely at a level in Irish where I can be autonomous in my studies. ...

Dave,
You seem to be in a self-fulfilling mode of thought. No one is asking you to leave the forum, except, I guess, yourself. If you step back from the edge for a moment you would see that making a judgement about Irish tattoos honoring Irish heritage is not a judgement on the form -- Irish, but on the matter -- tattoos, which is barely within the scope of the forum and the poster's original request. Also if you reflect further, your judgement call can be placed back on you -- who are you to criticize tattoos which you don't have. And don't think you're alone. I think there are many people, including myself, who have differing views than the ones that appear in certain threads. I have found it of much more benefit to opt out expressing those views because I see it usually, in a very practical, destroys efforts to learn Irish, and does no good in bringing over people to my view. Maybe you like the exercize, but I have enough of it in other parts of my life to seek out more. Another idea is to set up your own forum, a blog or the like. Let it rip, and you'll have a place to engage in those discussions. You can call censorship, or liberal bias, but I have had no problem with posting my questions about such "conservative" topics as the Latin Mass translated into Irish, and people we're polite and helpful. No one tried to run me off the forum. And I am sure some people read it and passed on because it didn't interest them (or they objected). (Believe me, I've heard all kinds of name-calling over that topic.)

We shouldn't object when we are measured with the same measure by which we measure others.

Seán
Proud Owner of "The Closing of the American Mind"

What a shame :(

Davidw, if you do go, I want to wish you the best of luck with your website and your learning. "You are nearly there!!" Just maybe give it a few days to mull it over before you leave the forum altogether. Your contributions are appreciated by many here, including myself, and remember, amach anseo, that some people in the world won't have the ability/will you have to learn languages and perhaps the tattoo is their only link with the Irish heritage and language.

Everyone is entitled to a rant every now and again, most people won't judge you for it either obviously, so don't do anything mad like leaving the forum! You could regret it when the day comes you want to discuss something or ask for help.

A Sheáin, David does have a blog. You can find it here: http://www.corkirish.com/wordpress. (The entries consist mainly of excerpts from an Athair Peadar, but scroll down and you'll see some opinion pieces.)

Ní thógfaidh mé tatú orm féin i gcás ar bith, as teanga ar bith... ach b'fhéidir faoi bhéal gunna.

Más maith le duine éigin tatú a tógáil air féin, bíodh sé á thógáil. Ach ná bíodh sé ag tógáil rudaí nach tuigeann sé.

Dála an scéil... Bhí gráin agam ar an bhean a phleanáil tatú a chur ar a naíonán... Bhí cuid mór comhrá faoina plean i nuachtán agus ar fóraim Fionlannacha ag deireadh an Eanáir.

-----------

To the OP: Once you acquire enough Irish to read that, you may (carefully) consider having a tattoo in Irish. Otherwise, I'm with David in this. Get something symbolic rather than verbal if you want a tattoo and you want to be on the safe side.

To David: You seem to have a considerable command of Irish, and I bet there is a lot you can give to other learners. You're likely to spot mistakes in my writing, and when you do, feel free to comment and correct. I've posted stupid things some of which may have struck the wrong strings with people, but so far I haven't been kicked.

quote:

if you want a tattoo and you want to be on the safe side.

Well, that's just it. Of course there is some risk involved in soliciting translations from persons unknown over the Internet. If the person wanting the tattoo is comfortable with that risk, though, then who am I to argue?

If you can't read Irish, then having something in Irish is "symbolic rather than verbal." It's a pretty picture with meaningful (to the tattooee) associations. How is that different from a harp with bluebells growing around it or what-have-you?

quote:

If you can't read Irish, then having something in Irish is "symbolic rather than verbal." It's a pretty picture with meaningful (to the tattooee) associations. How is that different from a harp with bluebells growing around it or what-have-you?

A fair question, and one that's not easy to answer. My basic reaction is that having a verbal tattoo carries an implicit claim that one is familiar with the language in question, whereas a purely visual design carries no such implication. A picture of a harp, for instance, doesn't suggest to me that the bearer presumes to know how to play the harp. So why does "Tóg go bog é" in seanchló on a non-Irish-speaker suggest presumption?

On a more purely aesthetic level, I have an aversion to verbal tattoos because they fundamentally lack creativity. Here you have a three dimensional canvass, the possibilities for adorning it are limitless, and all you can come up with is the equivalent of an advertising slogan? Using unusual languages and exotic scripts generally strikes me as a lazy attempt to conceal the utter banality of most people's choices. If "No fear" is a lame thing to have tattooed in English, trying to render it in Chinese or Sanskrit or Gaelic won't change that. And the fact that these translations so often go badly wrong is only the eejit icing on the cake of cluelessness.

Gabh mo leithscéal as an easpa beagnach iomlán de Ghaelainn sa trácht so. B'fhéidir go mbeinn ábalta a chúiteamh air go ndéanfainn snáithe nua fén ábhar agus pioc ach Gaelainn ann!

Well we should strive on finding this poster, something that has a bit more resonance in the context of the language as opposed to a direct translation. That way we're benefiting from his problem.

"Ní fheictear domsa go bhfuil aon tairbhe as tatú i dteanga ná fuil agat in aon chor"
Its easy say it when you have the language. Youd be surprised how special a few words, that gives them just a biteen more sense of identity and confidence, can be.


tis funny, how people say the Irish language is useless,

we are given a role in modern society and we refute it! :P :P this is the Gaeldom having an influence on a modern tradition .i. the tradition of tattoo/body art! Tis a natural development

Ni lia duine ná tuairim!



(Message edited by Ardri on April 23, 2010)

>>Ni lia duine ná tuairim!


If everyone accepted that, we would have a great free society!

níl an ceart agat ach an oiread a dúdaire!!! fan uaim fan uaim id aineolaí wáááaááááéééérrrbÚÚÚiiirrrríiilll!!....



















.... is breá a bheith ag fonóid....





....maith dhom é.....



a chara. :)

A Dháibhí --

Geobhair mo thuairim ar an ábhar seo thall anso:
http://www.daltai.com/discus/messages/13510/15690.html?1144962986

Do bhí mo theanga ina leathphluc agam, dar ndóigh.


Ná bí do m'ionsaí -- ní namhaid mise. Agus aontaíonn mo bhean chéile leat maidir leis na tatúnna.

A Ardri, níor cheapas riamh gurbh easpa féinmhuiníne ar Mheiriceánaigh oidhreachta Gaelach! Cad is dóigh leat go ndeanfaidh d'fhear leis an muinín seo nua-aimsithe go gcuirfeadh tatú ann? De réir na heachtranna nighinne-neonach, beag an baol go foghlaimeodh sé aon Ghaelainn!

Dhera, is rud phearsanta é an muinín nua-aimsithe seo, ambaist.
Muinín eh....spiorálta?..Is ea... spioradálta... :)

Nuair a bheam Ghaeil críonna is feoite, ár mbéil bhocht balbh go deo, mairfidh ár dteanga breá ar phár craicne breicneach na Meiriceánaigh, go hearráideach! :P:P


"Nil sa saol seo ach ceo,. Is ni bheimid beo,. ach seal beag gearr"

Mhuise, i ndeireadh na dála
Ní mór iad san (lucht na tatú)a mhaitheamh, déarfainn.
Iad a ligint saor!

Tá dúshláin i bhfad níos urchóidí le chloí againn, gan trácht ar mhian amaideach chúpla Poncáin!

Lig dóibh!. Is lig don chéad chloch.

Just to clarify my position and comment:

I am a libertarian so I pretty much feel like anyone can do whatever they want to their body. Personally, I don't like tatoos because I like things natural, but if you're going to have one I can't think of a better language to have than Irish. My comment was meant to encourage the visitor to think about how beautiful it would be to have a few words from his ancestry and heritage coming from his mouth. It really has been my experience that the Irish that I speak seems etched (tatooed if you will) on my heart, and it is a real pleasure to have those words go into the heart of another. Tá sé taithí iontach deas!

Slán
Faberm

Scríobh Sinead:

Your contributions are appreciated by many here, including myself,....

Aontaim leis.

Scríobh Sinead freisin:

...so don't do anything mad like leaving the forum! You could regret it when the day comes you want to discuss something or ask for help.

But there's really no reason to regret anything. Since he indicates that he's been kicked off for 19 times already, couldn't he just re-join for the 21st time? I don't see anything in the forum rules that limit the number of times you can get kicked off and re-join.

And to the OP: How about getting a temporary tatoo, sort of like a draft copy?


(Message edited by bodhrán on April 25, 2010)

Bodhrán - I didn't leave the forum, and it is better for people to stay within the forum rules and stick to one username so people know who they're talking to.

quote:

it is better for people to stay within the forum rules and stick to one username so people know who they're talking to.

Where did you read such a thing in the forum rules or did you just make that up?

Anyway, looks like it's time for me to change my username again. And maybe while I'm at it, I'll get a tattoo with some Irish phrase to honor my Irish heritage.

I like helpful posts on the Irish language. I have asked quite a few questions on Irish passages in recent days - surely they are better to discuss than getting into disputes on non-Irish-related subjects?

Maybe "20th time" is more or less metaphorical here?

Well, to stick somewhat to the original topic, there are a couple pro-Irish-tattoo posts with good points.

Granted, I can understand the artistic side of foreign words in a neat font. But especially if a deeper meaning is sought, better have them spelled right... and perhaps avoid worn-out phrases and word groups like "faith, hope, love".

At all costs, avoid the classical blunder "Mo Cuishle" - while it might look neat and people will possibly identify it from The Million Dollar Baby, it is misspelled...

I'm not sure if the story about a biker with a "Stan's Slave" tattoo is true... but again, among the practitioners of the profession there are dyslexics as well as there are people who won't care to check the supplied texts and their spelling/phrasing in the first place.

>>>Maybe "20th time" is more or less metaphorical here?

No, it isn't, but then this is to get sucked into discussing things other than the Irish language here. I have opened a great thread on a phrase I have come across - roinnt na caillí - and I hope people have time to answer that one, as it is on the subject of the Irish language.