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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (March-April) » Archive through April 30, 2010 » áistriúcháin « Previous Next »

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Ardri
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Username: Ardri

Post Number: 95
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 12:35 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

an miste libh an véarsa seo a aistriú dom
(dán le Aogán Ó Rathaille)

Brisid fá scige go scigeamhail buíon ghruagach
is foireann de bhruinnealibh sioscaithe dlaoi-chuacach,
i ngeimhealaibh geimheal mé cuirid gan puinn suaimhnis,
's mo bhruinneal ar broinnibh ag broinnire broinnstuacach.

Ó go n-ithe an diabhal thú!

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David_w
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Username: David_w

Post Number: 91
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 02:43 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

well I have no idea, but you could browse through Dinneen's edition of Rathaille's poems at http://www.archive.org/stream/dntaaodhaginura00oragoog , and see if you can find his translation

Luasgann an tAṫair Peadar mo ṡaoġal!.

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Taidhgín
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Username: Taidhgín

Post Number: 720
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 03:58 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

What poem is it from Ardrí?

The gist of the verse is that young women are laughing and whispering at him because his woman / wife is "ar broinnibh ag broinnire broinnstuacach" That's my reading of it.

Brisid = briseann siad fá scige = they break out in mocking laughter

go scigeamhail = go scigiuil = mockingly


buíon ghruagach = a group of enchanters / enchantresses

line 2 means "and a team of whispering girls with curled locks of hair"

line 3 "in chains of bondage me they put with no peace i.e. They have me tormented

line 4 "and my own woman [on horseback] in front of a *&6% stubborn $"7^*?#@"

When you find the "definitive" translation please let me know if I was close.

Aodhagán Ó Rathaille is "the" poet to read in Irish.

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Abigail
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Username: Abigail

Post Number: 1233
Registered: 06-2006


Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 04:36 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

It's from "Gile na gile" surely? One or two stanzas after "Rithim le rith mire im rithibh..."

There is a decent (more than decent) translation by Thomas Kinsella in the anthology "An Duanaire", which I have at home. I'll look it up tonight.

Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!

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David_w
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Username: David_w

Post Number: 97
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 04:54 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Abigail gave the reference, so Dinneen's translation is the 2nd stanza on this page: http://www.archive.org/stream/dntaaodhaginura00oragoog#page/n89/mode/1up

Luasgann an tAṫair Peadar mo ṡaoġal!.

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Ardri
Member
Username: Ardri

Post Number: 96
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 12:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

David is breá an áis é sin! Fad saoil chugat!

Maith thú a Thaidhgín is Abigail.

Ó go n-ithe an diabhal thú!

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Ardri
Member
Username: Ardri

Post Number: 97
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 01:02 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

ach, ag dó na geirbe dom atá an líne dheirneach go fóill!

's mo bhruinneal ar broinnibh ag broinnire broinnstuacach

while to my maiden clung a clumsy, lubberly clown.



An ionnan bruinneal agus bean mar sin?
Agus broinnire= (ag teacht ón bhfocail brú) capturer

Cad is brí le broinnire broinnstuacach?
broinn = womb
stuacach= stubborn
?

Ó go n-ithe an diabhal thú!

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 9775
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 01:52 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

quote:

An ionnan bruinneal agus bean mar sin?



Is ionann.

bruinneall [ainmfhocal baininscneach den dara díochlaonadh]
cailín óg álainn.

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Taidhgín
Member
Username: Taidhgín

Post Number: 721
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 10:16 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

From the point of view of learning Irish I do not think it is necessary to attempt to reduce every word and phrase to an equivalent English word or phrase. Better to let the original Irish remain in your memory and enjoy the other aspects of the verse, the rhythm, rhyme, and metre, as well as the overall meaning (the pain and shame of having other "fair maidens" laughing and mocking the poet on the occasion of his rival having carried off his own "fair maiden." The cuckold in the community would be a figure of derision.)

Not having read the rest of the poem I do not know if this would have a further meaning as in the "Aisling" tradition where the poet stands for "na Gaeil", the "fair maiden" for the sovereignty of Ireland and "an bruinnire broinnstuacach" for "Seán Buí or an Sasanach".

Due to the possibility of getting your hair soaked with tar and set alight poets in those days had to be very circumspect in using their art to rouse people to rebellion hence the popularity of the Aisling where the "rebel poems" could be passed off as dreams of love lost etc. Shades of Section 31 of the Broadcasting Act in Conor Cruise O'Brien's reign. Shades of Salman Rushdie and the fatwah.

Aodhagán Ó Rathaile was an example of a ferociously angry enraged poet or writer (like Dean Swift and Máirtín Ó Cadhain). Having seen his noble Gaelic patron dethroned and rendered helpless by the incoming conquerors and the new English-speaking aristocracy / ascendancy class he can only express his anger in his poetry. He was quite capable of making up new words and stretching the meaning of existing ones. I suspect "bruinnire" would be taken as the equivalent of the Anglo-Saxon "f-cker" and "ar broinnibh" can be taken as similar to "ar cúlaibh" -- a pillion passenger on horseback -- only that "ar broinnibh" means in front of and not behind the "broinnire broinnstuacach." I am quite sure Aodhagán intended us to be shocked by his outrageous language and choice of words. Strong stuff! Check out "Filí faoi Sceimhle" by Seán Ó Tuama.

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James_murphy
Member
Username: James_murphy

Post Number: 451
Registered: 11-2005


Posted on Monday, April 19, 2010 - 12:46 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"Coingbhigh go lom fát bhonn a ghairbhleac mhór,
An mursaire fallsa do mheabhruigh gangaid is gó,
Le dlighthibh na nGall tug scannradh ar Bhanba is tóir,
'S go bhfeiceam an t-am bheidh fá'n samhail seo a maireann dá phór."


Éachtach!

Séamus Ó Murċaḋa

Inis fá réim i gcéin san Iarṫar tá
Dá ngoirid luċt léiġinn Tír Éireann fialṁar cáil

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Grumpy Old Fogey (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 08:42 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"'s mo bhruinneal ar broinnibh ag broinnire broinnstuacach" = "and a priapic stud with my maiden by the breasts"

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Ardri
Member
Username: Ardri

Post Number: 101
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 12:13 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tuigim, go smior!

Is mór an flosc atá spreagtha ionam a bhuí libh.
Spéis i bhfilíocht Uí Rathaille, ambaist.
An cruinneas filíochta ar ndóigh, ach is follasach an léiriú ar chúrsaí staire iad na aislingí, déarfainn.

Is aoibhinn saol an Ghaeil, mhuis!

(Message edited by Ardri on April 23, 2010)

(Message edited by Ardri on April 23, 2010)

Ó go n-ithe an diabhal thú!



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