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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (March-April) » Archive through April 15, 2010 » "Déan do shiopadóireacht a phacáil anseo" « Previous Next »

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Sineadw
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Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 271
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2010 - 06:27 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Chonaic mé an fógra seo tráthnóna ar chomhartha in ollmhargadh de chuid Aldi, cinnte chuir sé áthas orm nuair a chonaic mé é agus é scríofa as Gaeilge ach níl mé eolach ar an úsáid seo de 'déan ..a phacáil'. Le h'aghaidh 'pack your shopping please here', is é 'Déan do shiopadóireacht a phacáil anseo le bhur dtoil' an Ghaeilge a thugtar air.

Is this a colloquial or a polite way of saying 'pack your shopping here' instead of using the imperative as in 'Pácaigh'..?

Can you use 'déan' with other similar expressions? Más é bhur dtoil é agus go raibh maith agaibh!

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David_w
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Username: David_w

Post Number: 45
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2010 - 06:34 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

There are lots of circumlocutions with déan.

Look at this example from Mo Sgéal Féin

Do dhein Fionn agus Fiana Éirean an tír seo na h-Éirean do chosaint ar gach namhaid iasachta an fhaid a mhair a réim i n-Éirinn

My translation: Fionn and the Irish Fenians served to protect Ireland from each of her foreign enemies as long as they held sway in Ireland

Do dhein....an tír seo do chosaint

See definition 4 of déan in Dónall's dictionary: (periphrastic use with the verbal noun) "rinne sé an capall a cheansú" he controlled the horse.

Luasgann an tAṫair Peadar mo ṡaoġal!.

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Sineadw
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Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 273
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2010 - 06:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thanks for quick reply David! Circumlocution is a word I needed.. thanks. New heading going into my grammar book.And thanks for the reference number in Ó Dónaill too.
It's bewitching this use of déan isn't it.. one of my favourite things about Irish now.

So it is flexible and generally used with the verbal noun.

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David_w
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Username: David_w

Post Number: 46
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2010 - 07:22 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Sineadw in my own developing grammar book, my entry for deinim includes the following section on more abstract uses. All the quotes are from Mo Sgéal Féin (PUL1915 in my notation):

Note more abstract usage: a) to serve to, to use something to do something: dheineadh daoine a ndícheal chun oiread des na prátaíbh miona do choimeád agus dhéanfadh an garaidhe do chur i gcóir na h-aithbhliana, people would do their best to keep as many of the little potatoes as would serve to sow the field for the next year;

bhí máthair Shíle lá agus mám gairbhéil aici sa chorcáinín tón-leathan go ndeineadh sí an císte do bhácáil ann, Síle’s mother was there one day, and she had a handful of gravel in a broadbottomed little pot that she was using to bake a cake in;

dúbhradh liom-sa dul le n-a chois i dtreó dá mbéadh na ba ag ruith uaidh, a' d'iaraidh teacht thar n-ais abhaile, go ndéanfinn-se ruith agus teacht rómpa dhó, I was told to go with him so that if the cows ran away, trying to get back home, I could run and get ahead of them for him;

do dhein Fionn agus Fiana Éirean an tír seo na h-Éirean do chosaint ar gach namhaid iasachta an fhaid a mhair a réim i n-Éirinn, Fionn and the Irish Fenians served to protect Ireland from each of her foreign enemies as long as they held sway in Ireland [PUL1915].

b) Déanamh le, make do with: b'éigean dom fanmhaint sa bhaile, agus pé múineadh a thug mo mháthair dom déanamh leis, I had to stay at home, and make do with whatever instruction my mother gave me [PUL1915].

c) Déanfaidh sé an gnó, it will do/suit: ní dhéanfadh Gaeluinn an gnó i n-aon chor dos na mnáibh sin, those women would not be satisfied in Irish/Irish would not have done those women at all [PUL1915].

d) Déanamh ar, getting on for, going on for: bhíos, is dóich liom, tímpal deich mbliana dh'aois, nó b' fhéidir ag déanamh ar bheith aon bhliain déag, I was, I think, about 10 years old, or maybe going on for 11 [PUL1915].

Also déanamh amach ar: bhí sé ag déanamh amach ar uair an mheadhon-oídhche nuair a thánag go dtí an áit, it was getting on for midnight when I arrived there [PUL1915].

I hope those quotations are interesting. My dictionary is a dictionary of Cork usage - a collage of quotes of actual usage.

(Message edited by david_w on April 10, 2010)

Luasgann an tAṫair Peadar mo ṡaoġal!.

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Sineadw
Member
Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 275
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2010 - 07:50 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thar a bheith suimiúil a chara. Go raibh míle maith agat.

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Peter
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Username: Peter

Post Number: 681
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 05:00 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

De réir mo chuimhne, ní bhfuighfeá an úsáid sin ach i nGaeilge na Mumhan. Tá cupla sliocht faoi seo in Modern Irish.

'Na trí rud is deacra a thoghadh – bean, speal agus rásúr'



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