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David_w
Member Username: David_w
Post Number: 30 Registered: 03-2010
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 07:55 pm: |
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I know this word as meaning "fence", but I notice in the translation of MSF, Sheila O'Sullivan says each time "ditch of the road". Is ditch Hiberno-Irish for fence? Or does claí span two meanings, fence and ditch? I am just not familiar with "ditch of the road". |
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Seánw
Member Username: Seánw
Post Number: 567 Registered: 07-2009
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 08:34 pm: |
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Yes, it spans both meanings. Focal.ie has it in an equestrian sense of a ditch jump. I guess you have to look at the context to gather what the meaning is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ditch_%28obstacle%29#Ditch I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.
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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Post Number: 839 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 08:40 pm: |
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De Bhaldraithe gives "dike, wall; fence". Dike is an unusual word in English, since it can mean both an embankment and the ditch that was dug in order to build it. In fact, dike and ditch are simply variant forms of the exact same Old English word, itself from the same Germanic stem that gives dig. I repeat all this because it seems that the word has undergone a parallel evolution in Irish. There's a clear relationship between claí and claidh "delve". (Scottish Gaelic cladh "trench" and cladhaich "dig", respectively--is this another instance of a historically genitive form usurping the Irish nominative? Also cf. Welsh cladd "trench, pit", claddu "to bury", cloddio "to dig".) |
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Seánw
Member Username: Seánw
Post Number: 568 Registered: 07-2009
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 08:42 pm: |
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OED says under ditch: 2. a. esp. Such a hollow dug out to receive or conduct water, esp. to carry off the surface drainage of a road, a field, etc. On the borders of fields, etc., often serving the double purpose of carrying off surface water, and of forming an effective protective fence. The latter purpose is in marshy ground often served by a ditch alone, but elsewhere usually in combination with a hedge. I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.
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Sineadw
Member Username: Sineadw
Post Number: 270 Registered: 06-2009
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 08:48 pm: |
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Could be that she meant the ditch/hedgerow that you have everywhere running alongside the roads (country roads). You probably know this already but 'claí' is the stone wall that marks the boundaries between fields (on the mainland in Conamara at least!) |
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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Post Number: 840 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 09:35 pm: |
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Seems likely enough to me that claí would designate a ditch in marshy areas and a wall in stony ones. |
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