mainoff.gif
lastdyoff.gif
lastwkoff.gif
treeoff.gif
searchoff.gif
helpoff.gif
contactoff.gif
creditsoff.gif
homeoff.gif


The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (March-April) » Archive through April 15, 2010 » Claí an bhóthair « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David_w
Member
Username: David_w

Post Number: 30
Registered: 03-2010
Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 07:55 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I know this word as meaning "fence", but I notice in the translation of MSF, Sheila O'Sullivan says each time "ditch of the road". Is ditch Hiberno-Irish for fence? Or does claí span two meanings, fence and ditch? I am just not familiar with "ditch of the road".

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Seánw
Member
Username: Seánw

Post Number: 567
Registered: 07-2009


Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 08:34 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Yes, it spans both meanings. Focal.ie has it in an equestrian sense of a ditch jump. I guess you have to look at the context to gather what the meaning is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ditch_%28obstacle%29#Ditch

I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member
Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 839
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 08:40 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

De Bhaldraithe gives "dike, wall; fence". Dike is an unusual word in English, since it can mean both an embankment and the ditch that was dug in order to build it. In fact, dike and ditch are simply variant forms of the exact same Old English word, itself from the same Germanic stem that gives dig.

I repeat all this because it seems that the word has undergone a parallel evolution in Irish. There's a clear relationship between claí and claidh "delve". (Scottish Gaelic cladh "trench" and cladhaich "dig", respectively--is this another instance of a historically genitive form usurping the Irish nominative? Also cf. Welsh cladd "trench, pit", claddu "to bury", cloddio "to dig".)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Seánw
Member
Username: Seánw

Post Number: 568
Registered: 07-2009


Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 08:42 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

OED says under ditch:

2. a. esp. Such a hollow dug out to receive or conduct water, esp. to carry off the surface drainage of a road, a field, etc.
On the borders of fields, etc., often serving the double purpose of carrying off surface water, and of forming an effective protective fence. The latter purpose is in marshy ground often served by a ditch alone, but elsewhere usually in combination with a hedge.

I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sineadw
Member
Username: Sineadw

Post Number: 270
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 08:48 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Could be that she meant the ditch/hedgerow that you have everywhere running alongside the roads (country roads).

You probably know this already but 'claí' is the stone wall that marks the boundaries between fields (on the mainland in Conamara at least!)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member
Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg

Post Number: 840
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 09:35 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Seems likely enough to me that claí would designate a ditch in marshy areas and a wall in stony ones.



©Daltaí na Gaeilge