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Driftwood814
Member Username: Driftwood814
Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2008
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 10:18 am: |
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Fáilte romhat ar ais, a Aonghuis! I have some questions.…This is my first attempt at more than one sentence, and I’m not sure I constructed it correctly. Maybe you could tell me how it’s actually said and the grammar gurus could weigh in and tell me why? Nílim líofa, níl agam ach cúpla focail Gaelainn Mumhan, ó mo sheanathair. Táim ag foghlaim Gaeilge Cois Fharraige, anois. Is maith liom, ach is fearr liom Gaelainn Mumhan. What I am trying to say is that: I am not fluent, I only have a bit of Munster Irish from my granpa. Now I am learning Gaeilge Cois Fharraige. I like it but I prefer Munster Irish. My issues: Not sure I got the “only” part right. Not sure the “anois” is in the right place. Don’t know how to say “It’s ok, but I prefer…” And, on an unrelated note, how do you know when to use tú as opposed to thú? For instance, when I am calling my dog in at night I have a tendency to call “Cá bhfuil thú?” instead of “Cá bhfuil tú?” Which is right? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9742 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 11:01 am: |
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Go raibh maith agat Some small modifications Nílim líofa, níl agam ach cúpla focail de (or i) Gaelainn na Mumhan, ó mo sheanathair. Táim ag foghlaim Gaeilge Cois Fharraige, anois. Is maith liom í, ach is fearr liom Gaelainn na Mumhan wrt tú/thú I'll pass. That is for the grammar gurus, or maybe the dialect doctors. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9743 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 11:15 am: |
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quote:Don’t know how to say “It’s ok, but I prefer…” Nor do I, off the top of my head. I'd probably say "Níl sí ró olc". Maybe I'm just a pessimist |
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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Post Number: 834 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 11:16 am: |
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First of all, it's "Gaelainn na Mumhan". (Unless I miss my guess, Mumha is one of those place names which is always used with the article.) Also, it's a bit odd to use two spellings of "Gaelic" in the same sentence. I would either say "Gaelainn na Mumhan" and "Gaelainne Chois Fharraige" or--if writing in the CO--"Gaeilge na Mumhan" and "Gaeilge Chois Fharraige"; I wouldn't mix and match. Second, "Nílim líofa" sounds too Englishy to me; I'd say "Níl Gaelainn/Gaeilge líofa agam." The structure of the next sentence is perfectly fine, but cúpla is followed by a singular noun, i.e. "cúpla focal". Third, the placement of anois is fine but it there's no need for a comma before it. (The common before "ó mo sheanathair" is similarly unnecessary.) If you want, it could also go at the beginning of the sentence, i.e. "Anois táim..." Fourth, is maith liom needs a complement, e.g. "is maith liom í (because "Gaeilge" is feminine). You could also use sásta "content", i.e. "Táim sásta (léi "with it [fem.]"/leis sin "with that [i.e. the situation as a whole]/mar sin "so"/etc.). Fifth, according to normative usage, tú is the subject form and only occurs immediately after the conjugated verb; anywhere else, you should use thú. Your use of thú after bhfuil doesn't sound wrong to me, however, just dialectal. (In Cork Irish, t normally becomes th after l, so my first thought is that this is an extension of that rule across syllable boundaries. Ar chualaís ód sheanathair sin?) |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9744 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 11:46 am: |
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quote:I wouldn't mix and match In principle I agree with you, but Gaelainn na Mumhan is commonly said by those who would otherwise say Gaeilge. |
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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Post Number: 836 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 11:59 am: |
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An ndeirid siadsan "Gaeilg Uladh" leis? I suppose in principle it's no odder than saying Schwiizertüütsch when speaking Standard German, but it's always rubbed me the wrong way. I still consider it a bad habit for a learner to get into, but that's not my call. |
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Driftwood814
Member Username: Driftwood814
Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2008
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 01:22 pm: |
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A Aonghuis, GRMMA as an aiseolas. “Nor do I, off the top of my head. I'd probably say" "Níl sí ró olc".” That’s PERFECT! That pretty much describes exactly how I feel about it! The pronunciation and all just sounds weird to me! Regrettably, ó Siadhail was the most comprehensive grammar course I could find. Munster Irish learning tools are somewhat sparse. A Dhomhnaillín (Am I supposed to lenite you? Níl fios agam, taim ag foghlaim fós!) GRMMA as an aiseolas, leis! “Mumha is one of those place names which is always used with the article.” Did not know that. “Also, it's a bit odd to use two spellings of "Gaelic" in the same sentence.” Yes, but I wasn’t sure if it would sound even weirder to use Gaelainn with Cois Fharraige (missed the lenition on that, too!) To me it’s always been “Gaelainn” but I know that’s not how they say it there. It’s not mix and match by choice. I’m trying to learn, but little things keep popping up. “Sinn” and “anso” instead of instead of “muid” & “anseo” being two prime examples, simply because that’s how I heard it. It took quite some time for me to get it through my head that "teach" was really just "tigh" only different. But I have faith that you good people will help me sort it out!!! "Níl Gaelainn/Gaeilge líofa agam” Yes, that sounds much better! “there's no need for a comma before it” My English is showing :( “Fourth, is maith liom needs a complement” I knew something was missing; still struggling with the placement of pronouns. “Ar chualaís ód sheanathair sin?” Yeah, I guess I must have, cause the other just sounded queer to me…. Sorry, don't know how to do the quote thing! |
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Wee_falorie_man
Member Username: Wee_falorie_man
Post Number: 210 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 02:06 pm: |
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If your grandpa spoke Munster Irish he probably said, "Cá bhfuileann tú?" |
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Driftwood814
Member Username: Driftwood814
Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2008
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 03:08 pm: |
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Might could be WFM, I was only 6 when he passed and he had no teeth. Hard sometimes to understand him even in English; and 41 years is a long time to try to remember things! |
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David_w
Member Username: David_w
Post Number: 20 Registered: 03-2010
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 04:11 pm: |
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And as Domhnaillín said, it would be Gaelainn Chois Fhairrge, with a lenited C. I don't think Aonghus becomes Aonghuis in the vocative. It is a question of whether the noun is assigned to the 1st or 3rd declension, but I believe the genitive is or should be Aonghusa - putting it in the 3rd. So: a Aonghus! is the vocative. |
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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Post Number: 837 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 04:28 pm: |
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David, we had that discussion at length (I'll scare up the link later; gotta run now) and the long and short of it is, yes, third declension masculine names shouldn't be slenderised in the vocative but over time a lot of them have come to be declined as if they were actually first declension--to the point where it's pretty much up to the bearer to decide which version they prefer. And Aonghus has made it known he prefers "a Aonghuis", so that's what we use on the board. |
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