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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (March-April) » Archive through April 15, 2010 » Two gur expressions « Previous Next »

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David Webb (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 10:39 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I am looking at a sentence in Peadar Ua Laoghaire's Mo Sgéal Féin, chapter 15, where he expresses his anger that a newspaper in the 19th century was anti-clerical:


Do cuireadh 'n-a luighe ortha gur namhaid gur bh' eadh
an sagart, go raibh sé 'n-a namhaid ag Éirinn agus 'n-a
charaid ag namhadaibh na h-Éirean.

(translation: it was impressed on them that the priest was an enemy, that he was an enemy of Ireland and a friend of the enemies of Ireland)

My problem is: "gur namhaid gur bh'eadh an sagart". Is this actually correct? Or a typo? Or a mistake? Should it be:

"do chuireadh 'n-a luighe ortha gur namhaid AB eadh an sagart"?

This obviously comes from the construction:
namhaid is ea mé - I am an enemy (an enemy is what I am)

but nothing in any grammar books on Munster Irish, and nothing in the chart on Lars' site would justify gur...gur bh'ea ??

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David Webb (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 10:44 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Let me add further:

gur namhaid gur bh'eadh an sagart - sounds like the second gur is an indirect relative

but

namhaid is ea é - this is just direct relative

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 9733
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2010 - 08:15 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Gur {namhaid gurbh ea an sagart} atá san eagrán agamsa. Ceist do lucht gramadaí.

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Lughaidh
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Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3423
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2010 - 12:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Always read "gur namhaid gurbh ea(dh) an sagart" and structures like that. It's very normal in Munster Irish.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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Lars
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Username: Lars

Post Number: 454
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, April 05, 2010 - 01:56 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Without go (copula is/ba only once):
Namhaid ba ea an sagart = The priest was an enemy

with go:
gur either twice:
... gur namhaid gurbh ea an sagart = that the priest was an enemy
or gur only at the beginning, is/ba before ea:
... gur namhaid ba ea an sagart = that the priest was an enemy

quote:

namhaid is ea é - this is just direct relative


No, it isn't. It's no relative at all.
(though you read/hear "namhaid ab ea é" sometimes)

Lars

(Message edited by Lars on April 05, 2010)

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David Webb (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, April 05, 2010 - 02:24 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Thank you, Lars. I've got it now.



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