This word has appeared anois is arís in 'Dúnmharú sa Daingean' (which I have only 9 pages left to read). It has driven me insane as to what function 'á' has in the language and my dictionary offers a poor explaination of it's meaning. What I would like to know is what function does 'á' have and how is it used in a sentence?
Lá brea daoibh.

It would be easier if you gave us examples, because á can be translated in different ways according to the context...

I am not sure the point of reading whole books without knowing what á means is. Some people would say: read without understanding and it will all come together, but it won't. á is fundamental - and no book can be read properly without it.


á is used either in 1) a passive construction with the verbal noun; or 2) a verbal noun construction with a third person pronoun as the object.

1)Cad tá á dhéanamh agat? What are you doing?
2)d'éisteas léi á innsint - I heard her telling it

Also, if it helps, á was formerly expressed as do, dá, dhá, ghá, aghá and similar forms. This is because á is from do (the preposition) + a (the possessive adjectives).

Tá an chloch dhá tógáil ag Séamas. =
Tá an chloch á tógáil ag Séamas.

Lit. the stone is to her lifting at/by Séamas.

The preposition is now hidden because the á spelling is based on today’s pronunciation. But it makes cloch a "virtual object", because if the expression was made in a different way you'd say:

Tá Séamas ag tógáil an cloiche.

The other forms, when written out fully, show the do:

do mo
do do
dár
do bhur

In English one hears "never finish a sentence with a preposition." In Irish we are not supposed to write a pronoun as object to the verbal noun (the ag ~~~ verb form).

For example you can say:

Tá Seán ag léamh an leabhair. (Seán is reading the book where book is in the Genitive case / Tuiseal Ginideach after "ag léamh" which is an ainm briathartha / verbal noun)

Suppose you must not use the word leabhar and want to replace it with a pronoun. You are not, not, not allowed to say "ag léamh é" you must say [at + its + reading] or in Irish [ag + a + léamh] and in modern Irish the [ag + a] are reduced to "á" but the rules of the aidiacht shealbhach / possessive adjective apply: so [at + her + praising] becomes "á moladh" and [at + his + praising] becomes "á mholadh" and finally [at + their + praising] becomes "á moladh." That last example does not illustrate my point so I'll try a different one [at + their + lamenting] which is "á gcaoineadh"

That's it. The preposition "ag" (or "do")combined with the possessive adjective before the verbal noun. That's the grammar you need to know.

á ngoid = stealing them; á n-ithe = eating them; á bhaint = harvesting it (a crop);

In English one hears "never finish a sentence with a preposition." In Irish we are not supposed to write a pronoun as object to the verbal noun (the "ag ~~~" verb form).

For example you can say:

Tá Seán ag léamh an leabhair. ("Seán is reading the book" where book is in the Genitive case / Tuiseal Ginideach after "ag léamh" which is an ainm briathartha / verbal noun. Literally the sentence could be translated as "Seán - is - at - the reading - of the book.")

Suppose you must not use the word leabhar and want to replace it with a pronoun. Now you want to say "Seán - is - at - the reading - of it."

However there is a problem. You are not, not, not allowed to say "ag léamh é" you must say [at + its + reading] or in Irish [ag + a + léamh] and in modern Irish the [ag + a] are reduced to "á".

The rules of the aidiacht shealbhach / possessive adjective apply:

so [at + her + praising] becomes "á moladh"

and [at + his + praising] becomes "á mholadh"

and finally [at + their + praising] becomes "á moladh."

That last example does not illustrate my point so I'll try a different one

[at + their + lamenting] which is "á gcaoineadh"

That's it. The preposition "ag" (or sometimes "do" which gives "dá") combined with the possessive adjective before the verbal noun. That's the grammar you need to know.

á ngoid = stealing them; á n-ithe = eating them; á bhaint = harvesting it (a crop); á cháineadh = criticising him.

Sorry. Tá brón orm. I hadn't realised I had already posted. The second attempt is a bit better I think.

brilliant explaination taidhgín!! maith thú!!
that one was bugging me too for a long time.

Munster
am bhualadh, ad bhualadh, á bhualadh, ár mbualadh, bhur mbualadh, á mbualadh
Connacht
dho mo bhualadh, dho do bhualadh, dhá bhualadh, dhár bhualadh, dho'ur bhualadh, dhá bhualadh
Ulster
mo/ag mo bhualadh, do/ag do bhualadh, á bhualadh, ár/ag ár mbualadh, bhur/ag bhur mbualadh, á mbualadh
Scotland
gam bhualadh, gad bhualadh, ga bhualadh, gar bualadh, gur bualadh, gam bualadh

Standardized Irish
do mo bhualadh, do do bhualadh, á bhualadh, dár mbualadh, do bhur mbualadh, á mbualadh

>This is because á is from do (the preposition) + a (the possessive adjectives).

I am not sure about this. Ulick Bourke's Grammar (1856, PDF available on archive.org) talks on p136 about "tá an clog 'g a bualadh", writing " 'g a" and not "do". Bourke comments,
"in sentences of this kind, "do", contrary to strict etymological propriety, is beginning, just at present, to be much used instead of the particle "aig"". He then explains it should be "aig a bualadh" or " 'g a bualadh". I believe that John Donovan in his famous grammar of 1845 says something similar, but I have mislaid the page number.

As Taidhgín says, the form is derived from ag+a. Táim ag déanamh, I am doing. Táim ag déanamh é --> táim á dhéanamh. So you can see the preposition was always "ag" all along.

I heard that the form in Scottish Gaelic and Mayo Irish supports the view that the preposition was "ag", but I have forgotten the details.

In parts of Ireland, the "g" of "ag" became confused with the "do" that often governs the verbal noun ("do bheith" "an Ghaelainn do labhairt"--this "do" is also now more likely to be "a" nowadays). This is via sentences like "is maith liom é do dhéanamh" (nowadays: is maith liom é a dhéanamh). These two types of sentences are easily confused but from an English point of view, "é a dhéanamh" is an infinitive style construction "to do it", whereas "á dhéanamh" is a gerund-style construction "doing it".

So a kind of "fatuous distinction" then arose in the 19th century, between people writing "dá dhéanamh" for "being done" and "ghá dhéanamh" for "doing it" - when both are derived from "ag" and both are pronounced "á dhéanamh".

As for do mo, do do, dár, do bhur - these are all I think chosen by the standardisers, and I am personally not sure how exactly they relate to the dialectal realities on the ground. In Munster the forms are:

am bhualadh - hitting me
ad bhualadh - hitting thee
á bhualadh - hitting him/it OR being hit
á bualadh - hitting her/it OR being hit
ár mbualadh - hitting us
bhur mbhualadh - hitting you
á mbualadh - hitting them OR being hit

In Galway, I know the á form is dhá: dhá bhualadh, and I think the others are similar, dho mo bhualadh. The do mo forms - where are they used - genuine question - Ulster?

How would I work á into this sentence: (and I'd like to use 'teastáil' as the verbal noun)

"Did they get the money they wanted?"

1. Ar bhfuair siad an t-airgead a bhí ag teastáil uathu

or

2. Ar bhfuair siad an t-airgead a bhí á theastáil uathu.

I'm comparing it to 'an obair a bhí á déanamh agam' and so thought no.2 would be correct but it looks wrong??

Would this last one be correct even?:

'an t-airgead a bhí á theastáil uathu?'

quote:

So you can see the preposition was always "ag" all along.

Perhaps the differing uses got confounded, or do was favored over time instead of ag. Both uses were common in the past, as evidenced by the DIL:


OC

(f) the vn. following oc is often used in a passive sense, being in this case always preceded by a poss. pron. In Mod.Ir. g(h)á, d(h)á are used in this way.

DO

IV With vn. to express the idea of entering upon or continuing in a state or action: a mbátar do lepthugud when they were (on the point of?) going to bed IT i 67 . cid 'mo atai diar lenamuin? why art thou pursuing us? SR 1722 . mun beith cailleach an mhuilinn d'atach Christ frim, Buile S. 122 . Impers.: do muintir in fhir atathar do crochad, PH 3172 . Used redundantly: int Ísu oc a raba Hiruath d'iarraid, 2841 . in banliccerd occatathar d'iarraid, Anecd. iv p. xvi = oc atathar cuingidh, p. 93 .

With poss. in passive sense: an uair bhíos dá chor amach when he is being evicted , TSh. 794 . go raibhe dá ilchéasadh so that he was being tortured , 564 .

quote:

I'd like to use 'teastáil' as the verbal noun

I don’t think that teastáil will work because of the idiom with ó, which is already conveying a similar relationship as the passive form -- it is bhí ag teastáil uathu "wanted by them".

Seánw is right. Ag teastáil is certainly a verbal noun but not the sort I had in mind. It can't take a direct object. So "á" would not be found with that verb. There are probably many other "intransitive" verbs that are similar: "éirigh" for example.

Thanks a lot.. great to understand why exactly it is ag teastáil uathu. I can see now what you mean:

ag déanamh

vs.

ag teastáil ó.


Thanks Taidhgín and Seanw :)

quote:

great to understand why exactly it is ag teastáil uathu

Yes, teastáil ó literally means "lacking from me" or "absent from me". English "want" has a similar origin, inasmuch as it originally meant a lack, then later a desire. Back in ye olde days, the English used to say "it is wanting to me", while the other main use of today meant "to lack", so "I want ice cream" meant "I lack ice cream" not "I desire ice cream". A little bit of a tangent, but hopefully is gives little more context to teastáil requiring an indirect subject (ó + the one in need, or who desires), which interpreted on a whole will equal modern English "to want".

It is a little awkward, as the construction is impersonal, and also includes ó (Teastaíonn uaim), whereas the passive with á uses ag to make the agent. Because teastaíonn uaim means "it is wanting from me, it is lacking from me", to make it passive would be to say "it is being wanting, it is being lacking from me". If you tried to say "An bhfuaradar an t-airgead a bhí á theastáil acu?", what would this mean that is not better said "an bhfuaradar an t-airgead a bhí ag teastáil uathu?" I would suggest the meaning of the verb defeats the use of the passive. If you find á teastáil on the Internet, it is probably a misspelling of ag teastáil - given that the g is not pronounced anyway...

Note that those verbs, like fuair, that do not take "r" in the past (ní bhfuaras, not níor bhfuaras) need "an" and not "ar" in the interrogative. See http://wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Seadna.djvu/16 for an example from Séadna: An bhfuair Séadna an sparán?

Quote**Note that those verbs, like fuair, that do not take "r" in the past (ní bhfuaras, not níor bhfuaras) need "an" and not "ar" in the interrogative. See http://wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Seadna.djvu/16 for an example from Séadna: An bhfuair Séadna an sparán?**

Ah again thanks a mil, really appreciate the help. I still have to learn and study the verbs more indepthly but it's next on my list. Hence the slip using 'ar' instead of 'an'! (Making do with what knowledge of verbs I have at the moment but definitely need to get completely up to speed.)