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Seamás91
Member Username: Seamás91
Post Number: 166 Registered: 10-2009
| Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 10:39 am: |
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taim ag léamh an leabhar 'Dunmharú Sa Daingean', agus tháinig me (across) an focal 'sular'. what does sular mean if i may ask? My guess was 'before'. Aon duine eile? |
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Macdara
Member Username: Macdara
Post Number: 98 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 11:48 am: |
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Before or 'lest.More usually written 'sula'.Maybe sular in front of vowel or different tense? Don't quote me. Funny enough I'm trying to write 'came across' or stumbled upon' and my mind's a blank! |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 3376 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 11:55 am: |
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Sular is the form of "sula" before most verbs in the preterite tense. Sula n-éistim = before I listen Sular éist mé = before I listened Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Curiousfinn
Member Username: Curiousfinn
Post Number: 367 Registered: 08-2008
| Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 11:56 am: |
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Tharraingt siar. B) (Message edited by curiousfinn on February 02, 2010) Tine, siúil liom!
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Taidhgín
Member Username: Taidhgín
Post Number: 633 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 02:28 pm: |
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A Lghaidh, a chara, what is the preterite tense in Irish? Is it the "aimsir caite?" (aimsir chaite?) or past tense? I am not familiar with the term. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 3377 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 04:43 pm: |
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Preterite = aimsir chaite. I didn't use the word "past" because there's a "past habitual" too... so it's better to use preterite & past habitual than past & past habitual, so people aren't confused... Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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(Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 04:30 pm: |
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The preterite Lughaidh mentioned is the aimsir chaite. I am not sure about the use of the term preterite - which as far as I know (please enlighten if wrong) refers to a very completed past tense. Eg in Spanish: preterite habló - spoke imperfect hablaba - was speaking (emphasis on the continuity in the past) perfect he hablado - have spoken (emphasis on the present relevance of the action) But I don't think the distinction between "do ghlanas" and "do ghlanainn" is one of preterite vs. imperfect. "Do ghlanainn" is specifically emphasising the habitual nature of the past tense (do ghlanaimís an tigh gach lá: "we would clean the house every day back then, we used to clean the house every day when I was a child etc") and a trawl through Irish literature would emphasise the fact that imperfect uses are frequently covered by the aimsir chaite. |
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 3378 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 01:48 pm: |
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I agree with you but if you say "past" and "past habitual" it may be confusing... Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Member Username: Domhnaillín_breac_na_dtruslóg
Post Number: 809 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 05:00 pm: |
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quote:But I don't think the distinction between "do ghlanas" and "do ghlanainn" is one of preterite vs. imperfect. "Do ghlanainn" is specifically emphasising the habitual nature of the past tense (do ghlanaimís an tigh gach lá: "we would clean the house every day back then, we used to clean the house every day when I was a child etc") and a trawl through Irish literature would emphasise the fact that imperfect uses are frequently covered by the aimsir chaite. Cross-linguistic terminology is always an imperfect fit. Even among such closely-related languages as the Romance varieties, the use of the tense labeled "imperfect" doesn't match up 100%. In German the terms Imperfekt and Präteritum have both been applied to the selfsame tense! (I.e. a simple past that contrasts with the compound perfect only in northern colloquial varieties.) So I don't think there's any real confusion introduced through calling the Irish non-habitual past tense "preterite", and I agree with Lughaidh that it could help avoid confusion with the past habitual. (Though getting the average learner to comprehend even the most basic grammatical terminology is probably a losing battle in any case. I recently got into a disagreement with schoolgirl over the use of caite and her response was "but I'm using it in the free tense...." I still have no idea what she meant by that.) |
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Seánw
Member Username: Seánw
Post Number: 428 Registered: 07-2009
| Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 06:57 pm: |
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quote:Funny enough I'm trying to write 'came across' or 'stumbled upon' and my mind's a blank! teacht ar rud de thaisme quote:I recently got into a disagreement with schoolgirl over the use of caite and her response was "but I'm using it in the free tense...." The autonomous, or impersonal? briathar saor? I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.
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(Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 04:58 pm: |
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Can someone please tell me what "coupla focla Gaeilge" means. Thank you. |
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An_chilleasrach
Member Username: An_chilleasrach
Post Number: 210 Registered: 01-2009
| Posted on Friday, February 05, 2010 - 04:29 am: |
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"Cúpla focal" (roughly pronounced coop-la fuckle) literally means "a couple of words". "Gaeilge" is the name of the language - "Irish" if you are referring to it in English. However, the term "cúpla focal" is really shorthand for having some ability to speak Irish. It is readily understood in Ireland and is often used when speaking English - "do you have the cúpla focal?" or similar. There is no need to add "Gaeilge" as that is understood. Now that you know what it means, I think you are morally obliged to obtain the cúpla focal yourself. |
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Taidhgín
Member Username: Taidhgín
Post Number: 642 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Friday, February 05, 2010 - 01:13 pm: |
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Lughaidh says quote:I agree with you but if you say "past" and "past habitual" it may be confusing... What do the Irish say? There is also a continuous present tense "An Aimsir Ghnáthláithreach" which is under threat of extinction by learners. It is only obvious in one verb "bí" - "táim" = I am; and "bím" = "I do be" / "I beeees" :-) No wonder our English is quaint. |
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(Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Monday, February 08, 2010 - 03:00 pm: |
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aimsir chaite - past tense aimsir ghnáthchaite - habitual past tense |
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