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James_murphy
Member Username: James_murphy
Post Number: 415 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 03:12 pm: |
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The following is one of a type of copula sentence from "Studies in Modern Irish" (the subject, the part which is unfamiliar to me, is in bold):- "B'iad beirt iad san ná Maolmhórdha & Sitric" If I understand it correctly this sentence is equivalent to something like: "The pair that this was was M. & S." or "What this pair was was M. & S.". And is to be differentiated from: "Ba iad an bheirt sin ná Maolmhórdha & Sitric" which simply means: "That pair were M. & S." Do I have this right or am I, as usual, wrong again? Séamus Ó Murċaḋa Inis fá réim i gcéin san Iarṫar tá Dá ngoirid luċt léiġinn Tír Éireann fialṁar cáil
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9660 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 05:20 pm: |
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Aon seans gur botún atá ann? Cén abairt a théann roimhe? Tá cuma aisteach air. |
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James_murphy
Member Username: James_murphy
Post Number: 416 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 06:06 pm: |
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B'abairt amháin í i liosta somplaí. Tá roinnt eile go bhfuil an cuma céadna orthu sa leabhar agus dob aisteach liom-sa iad, leis. So ceann atá cosmhail leis an abairt thuas go dtugann an t-ughdar roinnt eolais fúithi: "B'iad dá rígh iad san ná Conchubhar mac Neasa & Fearghus mac Róigh." Deir an t-ughdar: "'dá rígh iad san' is equivalent to 'an dá rígh a is iadsan*'" (* Ní fheadar ar cheart "iad san" a bheith annso.) Séamus Ó Murċaḋa Inis fá réim i gcéin san Iarṫar tá Dá ngoirid luċt léiġinn Tír Éireann fialṁar cáil
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Abigail
Member Username: Abigail
Post Number: 1202 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 06:17 pm: |
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Ní botún é, a Aonghuis - sin a deirtear - ach níl cliú ar bith agam cén míniú atá air ó thaobh na gramadaí de! Déanfaidh mé mo mhachnamh. Tá fáilte roimh chuile cheartú!
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Lughaidh
Member Username: Lughaidh
Post Number: 3375 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 06:21 pm: |
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"B'iad beirt iad san ná Maolmhórdha & Sitric" "B'iad dá rígh iad san ná Conchubhar mac Neasa & Fearghus mac Róigh." Tá siad mícheart agam. Déarfainn féin : Ba iad an bheirt sin (ná) Maolmhórdha agus Sitric. Ba bheirt rí (iad) Conchúr mac Neasa agus Fearghas mac Róigh. Ins an abairt "B'iad dá rígh iad san ná Conchubhar mac Neasa & Fearghus mac Róigh." tá barraíocht rudaí : ní cóir "iad" a chur go díreach i ndiaidh "ba" (déantar sin nuair a bíos an t-ainmní cinnte), agus tá dhá ainmní ann fosta: iad agus Conchúr... Ciallann an abairt "They were two kings Conchúr [...] and Fearghas". Má tá tú 'g iarraidh "Conchúr and Fearghas were two kings" a ráidht, déarfá go simplí "Ba bheirt rí Conchúr agus Fearghas". Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/
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James_murphy
Member Username: James_murphy
Post Number: 417 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 08:22 pm: |
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quote:Ins an abairt "B'iad dá rígh iad san ná Conchubhar mac Neasa & Fearghus mac Róigh." tá barraíocht rudaí : ní cóir "iad" a chur go díreach i ndiaidh "ba" (déantar sin nuair a bíos an t-ainmní cinnte), agus tá dhá ainmní ann fosta: iad agus Conchúr... De réir an ughdair (Gearóid Ó Nualláin) is abairtí ionannais iad. Tá "beirt iad san" agus "dá rígh iad san" cinnte toisc mír choibhneasta a bheith intuigte sna fráisíní; ar nós "Is é fear a ghoid an t-airgead a bhris an fhuinneog". Níor cheap Ó Nualláin féin na solaoidí seo. Bhain sé as saothar Pheadair Uí Laoghaire dárbh ainm "Niamh" iad araon. Séamus Ó Murċaḋa Inis fá réim i gcéin san Iarṫar tá Dá ngoirid luċt léiġinn Tír Éireann fialṁar cáil
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9661 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 04:12 am: |
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Ceist stíle seachas gramadaí, b'fhéidir? Abigail, an bhfuil tagairtí agat do "sin a deirtear"? Níor chuala mise riamh á rá é, ach seans gur ceist réimse teangan atá i gceist. |
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James_murphy
Member Username: James_murphy
Post Number: 418 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 01:52 pm: |
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Do fuaireas an leabhar "Niamh" ar líne, so na leathanaigh ar a bhfuil na habairtí: http://www.archive.org/stream/niamhmain00oleauoft#page/82/mode/2up http://www.archive.org/stream/niamhmain00oleauoft#page/312/mode/2up Bhí an ceart agat, a Aonghuis, go dtagrann siad dár tháinig rompu: "Míle blian sar ar thárla an méid sin cainte agus an méid sin gnótha idir Bhrian agus M'lsheachlainn do thárla caint de'n tsaghas chéadna agus gnó de'n tsaghas chéadna idir dhá rígh eile a bhí i n-Éirinn an uair sin. B'iad dhá rígh iad san 'ná Conchubhar mac Neasa agus Feargus mac Róig." "I n-áit eile, sa mhór-shluagh chéadna, bhí beirt eile agus iad ag feuchaint rómpa ar an gcuma gcéadna agus iad ag socarughadh neithe go h-áluinn, dar leó. B'iad beirt iad san 'ná Maolmórdha agus Sitric." Thugas faoi ndeara, leis, gur baineadh gach uile shompla dá gcineál as saothair an Athar Peadar. B'fhéidir gur foirm a bhí coitcheann ina gceanntar agus é ag fás í? Séamus Ó Murċaḋa Inis fá réim i gcéin san Iarṫar tá Dá ngoirid luċt léiġinn Tír Éireann fialṁar cáil
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(Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From:
| Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 07:16 pm: |
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>B'fhéidir gur foirm a bhí coitcheann ina gceanntar agus é ag fás í? I'm not sure this is right. It seems to mean "maybe it is a form that was common in their district with him growing". I think you could say this: B'fhéidir gur foirm í a bhí coitcheannta sa cheanntar gur tógadh é ann B'fhéidir gur foirm í a bhí coitcheannta sa cheanntar inar tógadh é B'fhéidir gur foirm í a bhí coitcheannta sa cheanntar inar fhás sé suas. |
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James_murphy
Member Username: James_murphy
Post Number: 419 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 11:58 am: |
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"ina gceanntar" = typo I meant to write "ina cheanntar". "agus é ag fás" = "while he was growing up". (It had occurred to me to write "fás aníos", perhaps it would have been clearer/better.) Séamus Ó Murċaḋa Inis fá réim i gcéin san Iarṫar tá Dá ngoirid luċt léiġinn Tír Éireann fialṁar cáil
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