How can I get who and whom into a single sentence. Eg (talking about Iris Robinson) I wanted to say "who used whom?"

Who used whom?


Cé a bhain úsáid, agus cé as á bhaint úsáid?

I am sure this is not right but what is the snappy way to say "who used whom"?

Cé a bhain úsáid as na daoiní eile? / as an chuid eile?

(b'fhéidir...)

Cé tháinig i dtír ar ché?
Cé d'úsáid cé?

It's an odd construction, so wait for more input.

Cé a bhí thuas nó thíos leis?

>Cé a bhí thuas nó thíos leis?

That may be the more natural way, but it gets around "who" and "whom".

>Cé d'úsáid cé?

I'm pretty sure you can't say this.


Maybe you can use "cér"? Ó Dónall's dictionary has "cér uaidh é? who was it from?" Could you say?

Cér a bhain úsáid, agus cérbh as á bhaint úsáid?

You can't use "cér" in your question. Have to have an indirect relative particle somewhere, if you want to use "cér".

I realised that úsáid must govern baint:



Cér a bhain úsáid, agus cérbh as (bhí) úsáid á bhaint?

>You can't use "cér" in your question. Have to have an indirect relative particle somewhere, if you want to use "cér".

OK. So that gets rid of the first cér, but not the later cérbh:

cé a bhain úsáid agus cérbh as bhí úsáid á bhaint?

Lughaidh, does that make sense now?

How about using the autonomous so that both the who and the whom can be employed using prep pronouns?

cérbh aige agus cérbh as do baineadh úsáid?

cérbh aige agus cérbh as do húsáideadh?

Using such a sentence, I'd say:
Cé a bhain úsáid agus cérbh as ar baineadh úsáid?
Or:
Cé a bhain úsáid agus cér baineadh úsáid as?

Cérbh aige agus cérbh as ar baineadh úsáid? (I guess it's grammatically right but it sounds unnatural to me)

The second sentence isn't right, because you say "húsáideadh rud", not "húsáideadh as rud"...

Lughaidh, thanks for your explanations.

All this came from wondering whether Iris Robinson used Kirk McCambley or the other way round!!!

Níl's agam cé hiad sin... :-)

An raibh sé ina chaptaen Kirk?

I'm not sure úsáid is appropriate at all in such situations.

Which is why I suggested:

Cé tháinig i dtír ar ché?

úsáid [ainm briathartha][ainmfhocal baininscneach den dara díochlaonadh]
feidhm (rud a chur in úsáid, chun úsáide; tá mo lámh as úsáid); caitheamh (bia a úsáid); íde, cóireáil (is olc an úsáid a thug siad don leanbh).

I'm not familiar with the construction, and will look it up in a minute. Thanks for that Aonghus.

I am not sure about "ar ché". Have you seen this before or are you suggesting it just might be possible?

How about:

cé tháinig i dtír, agus cérbh air?

"tháinig i dtír ar" requires an object.

I can't swear to having seen ar ché but that is my gut feeling.

Cé ba chiontaí, ise nó eisean?

Mhol an tAthair Peadar dúinn an Béarla a chur i leataobh agus an smaoineamh a chur i nGaeilge.

Cé a mealladh, ise nó ise?

Cé a truaillíodh, ise nó eisean?

Ní ghlacann an briathar saor le séimhiú san aimsir chaite de réir an Chaighdeáin.

Ceann deas eile: meabhlaigh - seduce, shame, disgrace.

Cé a meabhlaíodh, eisean nó ise?

Go deas, agus go bhfuil tú imithe ón té a ghníomhaigh. Táim cinnte go bhfuil bealach deas lén é sin a chuir in iúl freisin.

Cé a mheall, ise nó eisean?

Tá dán (ag Rita Kelly sílim) a bhaineann feidhm éifeachtach as an débhrí sa bhfocal bréagnú.

Tá an líne Bréagnaím I woo I lie nó rud éigin mar sin ann. Chuala mé na blianta fada á reic í.

>I can't swear to having seen ar ché but that is my gut feeling.

OK, thank you. I see now that there is no really snappy way of putting it in Irish. Every language is different and you mustn't always be translating from one to the other in your head!

Also thank you to Lughaidh for his watchfulness on Irish grammar - I got reminded of the "ar" particle..

quote:

Every language is different and you mustn't always be translating from one to the other in your head!

Exactly! Concepts [sometimes] translate, words don't.

Cé acu a bhí thíos leis an duine eile?

(Message edited by ormondo on January 26, 2010)

Ar mheall seisean ise nó sise eisean?

It seems like this thíos and thuas is probably a good way to put it.

quote:

Cé acu a bhí thíos leis an duine eile?

Tá débhrí deas leis sin. Thíos seal, thuas seal, ag caitheamh a dtóna agus iad ag clárú. An gclárófar iomlán an scéil riamh?

Cé a bhain an leas as an duine eile?

Tá débhrí deas leis sin.

...agus níor chóir a bheith dall ar an taobh debhríoch dá leithéid de scéal... ;-)