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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2010 (January-February) » Archive through January 26, 2010 » "Back seat for Irish in the EU" « Previous Next »

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Danny2007
Member
Username: Danny2007

Post Number: 509
Registered: 12-2007


Posted on Monday, January 18, 2010 - 01:48 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Full article:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6991208.ece

quote:

Unofficial figures from the European parliament show Labour has the worst record for speaking Irish, with its MEPs using the language in less than 1% of their speeches, compared to 3% for Fine Gael.



quote:

Fianna Fail has the best record with 47% of speeches by its MEPs being made either partly or fully in Irish. However, this figure is skewed by Seán Ó Neachtain, a former MEP, who gave all 125 of his speeches in the first official tongue. When Ó Neachtain is removed from Fianna Fail’s figures, the party still has the highest use of the language at 15%. Brian Crowley used Irish in 23 of 110 speeches.



quote:

Mairead McGuinness, a Fine Gael MEP, did not use Irish in any of her 253 speeches. “If I was an Irish speaker, I’d speak Irish, ” she said.

At the end of the year, the EU will review a limit on which legal texts must be translated into Irish. The government is unlikely to ask for this to be lifted because of a shortage of interpreters.



I wonder how the parties match up in terms of use of Irish in the Dáil? Last I read around 1% of Dáil proceedings are through the medium of Irish. Considering that the percentage of members in the Dáil with Irish is much, much higher than in the European Parliament, it seems only right that Irish be used more often. But as ever empty rhetoric and symbolism rules the day.

To the best of my knowledge, there has NEVER been a debate in the so-called national language between the leaders of the main parties in the run up to an election. Ever. In eighty eight years since the founding of the Irish State. Why? Many [most?] Taoisigh have had fluent Irish. Many of the leaders of the Opposition too. So why hasn't it happened? I've looked high and low and found no evidence of it occuring even once. Is anyone here aware of such a thing happening before?

A televised (and simultaneously broadcast on RnaG) debate on RTÉ1 and/or TG4 would be of HUGE BENEFIT to Irish, imo.

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Aonghus
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Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 9573
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, January 18, 2010 - 06:00 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The Labour figures are surprising, since Pronsias de Rossa is a fluent speaker.

quote:

Considering that the percentage of members in the Dáil with Irish is much, much higher than in the European Parliament,



http://www.europarl.ie/irish.html

I'd be surprised:

Marian Harkin (Ind) I don't know
Pat the Cope Gallager (FF) Native Speaker
Jim Higgins (FG) Fluent
Pronsias de Rossa (Lab) fluent
Joe Higgins (Socialist) Native Speaker
Gay Mitchell (FG) Not sure
Alan Kelly (lab) Not sure
Brian Crowley (FF) See above - moderately fluent as far as I know
Seán Kelly (FG) Fluent
Liam Aylward (FF) not sure
Mairéad McGuinness (FG) not fluent - see above
Nessa Childers (Lab) not sure
Bairbre de Brún (SF) fluent
Diane Dodds (DUP) no comment
Jim Nicholson (UUP) no comment


That is 2 native speakers and 4.5 fluent speakers out of 15. I don't think the Oireachtas would be that different, certainly not much higher.

Media inertia is the answer to your other questions.

And for the despondent tone of the article, that is what I'd expect from that paper.

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 9574
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, January 18, 2010 - 06:12 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

The other thing to factor into this is that speaking in tongues is normal in the European Parliament, and is not seeing as making a specific political point (or trying to hide from the media, as Michael Mac Dowell was accused of once when he introduced a Bill in Irish to the Senate)

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Antaine
Member
Username: Antaine

Post Number: 1444
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Monday, January 18, 2010 - 09:44 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

"To the best of my knowledge, there has NEVER been a debate in the so-called national language between the leaders of the main parties in the run up to an election. Ever. In eighty eight years since the founding of the Irish State. Why?"

Probably because if they are to take the time to set up and execute a debate, they want it to reach the greatest possible audience. Most of the country could not follow a debate in Irish, while a debate in English would be readily understood by virtually 100% of the population.

Going through a debate in a language other than English is undoubtedly looked upon as a missed opportunity to communicate with the greatest number of voters.

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Paploo
Member
Username: Paploo

Post Number: 22
Registered: 06-2009


Posted on Tuesday, January 19, 2010 - 11:02 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Antaine,

Sorry this is off-topic but I noticed your profile says you're from NJ, which is the same place I live. Would you mind sharing with me any information you know about Irish language in the area? You can email me. My address is

GRMA

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Danny2007
Member
Username: Danny2007

Post Number: 510
Registered: 12-2007


Posted on Tuesday, January 19, 2010 - 07:26 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Aonghus,

I mean the number (and %) of TDs with Irish compared to the number and % of MEPs. Not the % of Irish MEPs alone, but all MEPs. There are over seven hundred of them, I believe. However it is encouraging to see that many of the Irish MEPs can speak Irish well.

Antaine,

If so, then Irish as the national language is a complete farce. Tokenism at its absolute worst! I'm not suggesting that there should be a pre election debate in Irish IN PLACE OF English, but I see no reason why there can't be one in Irish as well. It goes without saying that there will be debates in English. Multiple debates. This is about giving Irish its due for once and actually showing that the position of the language in Bunreacht na hÉireann isn't completely meaningless.

Again, far more than 1% of TDs have fluent Irish, and for those that don't, there are services offered.

quote:

The State's politicians have been urged to use the Irish language a little more during debates in the Dáil and Seanad.

The call has come from Irish Language Commissioner Seán Ó Cuirreáin on the eve of the new Oireachtas term.


quote:

Currently, fewer than 1 per cent of all Oireachtas debates are held through Irish, even though simultaneous translation is provided and Mr Ó Cuirreáin reminds members they have the right to use either language in any debate.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2007/0925/1190324697559.html
This was in 2007. Has anything changed? Even 5% or 10% would be a vast improvement.


Is there any other country on the planet where the 'national language' occupies such a lowly position in the corridors of power!?

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 9589
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 04:21 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Several factors are in favour of use of Irish in the EP, which do not apply to the Dáil or Seanad.

1) Media coverage is not a major issue for MEPs (because they get none anyway). Speeches or statements made in Irish in the Dáil are routinely ignored in the press here. Politicians need coverage, speeches in the Dáil are directed to the press gallery rather than the house.

2) The EP does its business multilingually anyway.

3) Having pressed for Irish to be made an offical language, MEPs feel an obligation to use it (and not using it will be reported on, about the only time what they say in the EP gets noticed!)

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Danny2007
Member
Username: Danny2007

Post Number: 514
Registered: 12-2007


Posted on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 03:49 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Two questions:

- Do members of the press gallery have access to the simultaneous translation [interpretation] services? Headphones..

- What about the Irish language media? Surely they don't ignore Dáil proceedings altogether. And it's not like every reporter for RTÉ, the Irish Times or the Indo etc have no Irish.

Your points make sense, but it's still no excuse IMHO. 1%!?

When writing your messages, please use the same courtesy that you would show when speaking face-to-face with someone.
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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 9593
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 01:34 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Yes. But they like many anglophones don't want to advertise that they don't follow Irish.

The Irish Language media do a good job, but something important said in English won't be missed by them!

I was offering an explanation, not an excuse.

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Danny2007
Member
Username: Danny2007

Post Number: 516
Registered: 12-2007


Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 10:59 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I know. I was referring to those TDs who have Irish but rarely if ever use it.

When writing your messages, please use the same courtesy that you would show when speaking face-to-face with someone.
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