I came across the following sentence in " Studies in Modern Irish, Part I":

"Cailín dárbh ainm di Gile na mBláth" (bold indicates the predicate).
I'd have expected either "...dárbh ainm Gile..." or "...gurbh/arbh ainm di Gile...".
Is it, as I suspect, a misprint or does it have some meaning I'm unaware of?


In the same book the following sentences are given:

"Is athrughadh ana mhór* é, nach eadh?"
and
"Is é rud é ná athrughadh ana mhór".
The second sentence looks strange to me but I understand (I think) the difference in meaning between the two:
In the first "ana mhór" is the predicate, "athrughadh" is the subject.
In the second "athrughadh ana mhór" is the predicate and "rud é"(?) is the subject.
Am I right about this?

I suppose the reason for confusion would be that in English both meanings would be expressed the same way: "It's a big change" - differentiated, if at all, only by stress.

(*"an-mhór)

Go raibh maith agaibh.

No response at all?
Thanks.

What an odd forum this is.
When the discussion goes off on a tangent, as it frequently does, there are complaints that there is too much talk about issues concerning (often only marginally) the Irish language and not enough about the actual workings of and the learning of the language itself.
Well I would have thought my question above was a reasonable example of the latter, hence my surprise at getting no response to it.

Gabh ár leithscéal, a Shéamais, ach ní dóigh liom go raibh éinne ag tabhairt neamhaird ar do cheisteanna - ach amháin iad a bheith beagáinín caolchúiseach, b'fhéidir.

"Cailín dárbh ainm di Gile na mBláth"

Bheinn den tuairim chéanna; déarfainn nach bhfuil aon ghá do "di".

Go raibh míle maith agat as d'fhreagra, a Ormondo.

Ní rabhas cinnte faoi óir is tearc iomrall a thugas faoi ndear sa leabhar soin.


I dtaobh an dara ceist - arbh aisteach le Gaedhilgeoirí an lae inniu leithéid "Is é rud é ná athrughadh ana mhór"
i.e. an rud é ná húsáidfí ach an chéad abairt don dá bhrígh?


(Tá súil agam go bhfuil mo chuid Gaedhilge in-tuigthe)

James,
If it's any consolation, I have viewed your post and intend to look into it, but have been kind of busy for the last two days. It attests to the quality of your question. I can't just put a quick reply which could be quite frivolous. Let's see what develops!

Cailín dárbh ainm di Gile na mBláth isn't a sentence so I don't think "predicate" has much meaning here. The usual idiom would be dárbh ainm Gile ... without the di.

In Is [athrughadh ana mhór] é, nach eadh?, athrughadh ana mhór is one unit functioning as a "predicate", and é is the "subject".

Níor thug mé freagra roimhe seo, toisc nach raibh aon rud le dealramh le rá agam.

Ach sílim nach bhfuil "darbh ainm di" mícheart.

Féach na samplaí seo do "Darbh ainm dó"

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=ga&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aga-IE%3Aoff icial&hs=sQh&q=%22d%C3%A1rbh+ainm+d%C3%B3%22&btnG=Cuardaigh&meta=

agus "Darbh ainm di"

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=ga&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aga-IE%3Aoff icial&hs=9Qh&q=%22d%C3%A1rbh+ainm+di%22&btnG=Cuardaigh&meta=

Níl gá leis an dó/di ach níl sé mícheart.

(Message edited by aonghus on January 09, 2010)

(Message edited by aonghus on January 09, 2010)

quote:

In Is [athrughadh ana mhór] é, nach eadh?, athrughadh ana mhór is one unit functioning as a "predicate", and é is the "subject".

That's how I would have understood it until this bloody book came along :)
Perhaps I've completely misunderstood but I thought the point the author was making was that the purpose of this sentence is to describe "athrughadh" - "ana mhór" as opposed to "ana bheag" or "fíor-mhaith".

The second sentence I took as describing what the "thing" in question was - "é rud é" = "athrughadh ana mhór"?



Perhaps a more straightforward question would be:
How would anyone here understand this sentence on hearing/reading it -
"Is é rud é ná athrughadh ana mhór"?

quote:

Níl gá leis an dó/di ach níl sé mícheart.

Very interesting. It should have occurred to me to try a Google search.

(Message edited by James_Murphy on January 09, 2010)

quote:

How would anyone here understand this sentence on hearing/reading it -
"Is é rud é ná athrughadh ana mhór"?

Bheinn ag súil le abairt nó dhó roimhe, agus an abairt seo ag tagairt dóibh.

(Message edited by aonghus on January 09, 2010)

Ceist a haon:
No, it's no misprint. People say so, they use the preposition "do" twice, whyever.
cailín darbh ainm Gile is OK, but natives tend to add an additional and "superfluous" di (It's perhaps a dialect thing).

Ceist a dó:
No, in both cases athrú ana-mhór is predicate.
Is [athrú ana-mhór] é, nach ea?
= It's a big change, isn't it?
Is é rud é ná [athrú ana-mhór]
= What it is is a big change.

Lars

(Message edited by Lars on January 09, 2010)

Go raibh maith agaibh.
As usual my initial assumptions were wrong :) but it's incredibly helpful to have had them set right here.

Tá cleachtadh agam ar an "do" dúbailte seo, is coitianta go mór an déantús seo ná an ceann gan é i gConamara, de réir chosúlacht. Fuair mé somplacha den leagan cainte "darb ainm" anois díreach i nGaeilge Chois Fhairrge agus iad ar fad leis an "do" dúbailte.

Is frusta a fheiceáil cén fáth é: níl in "darb ainm" ach cineál leagan seargtha agus is ar éigin a úsáidtear "do" roimh an gcopail i leaganacha eile. Tá sé ar aon dul lena leithide de "teach ina bhfuil sé" vs "teach a bhfuil sé ann" -- agus an darna ceann ag goil i neart i gcaint na ndaoine.

(Message edited by peter on January 12, 2010)