I have been learning Irish through plenty of resources (Rosetta Stone, Teach Yourself Irish, Buntus Cainte and more) but I was wondering if any one knows any textbooks that like a student might use in school, like a 300-500 page 1 inch thick text book. Like the same one would use to study algebra or world history. Does anyone know if such a book exists? I think this would be a good way to learn grammar as opposed to books like TYI where they kind of teach bits of grammar as you go or a straight up Irish grammar book that doesn't really have exercises and examples.

Let me know if you've heard of anything like this.
GRMA

You mean other than Learning Irish by Mícheál Ó Siadhail?

There is an English version of the Christian Brothers Irish Grammar that gives an overview of the grammar rules - that's assuming you weren't ready for Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí as Gaeilge.

Nancy Stensons "workbooks" are a bit like textbooks:

http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Irish-Grammar-Workbook-Workbooks/dp/041541041X/

http://www.amazon.com/Intermediate-Irish-Grammar-Workbook-Workbooks/dp/041541042 8

Well, if you prefer the hard way, use Mícheál Ó Siadhail's "Modern Irish: Grammatical Structure and Dialectal Variation", a.k.a. the Black Hole. It's the kind of book I myself tend to be somewhat afraid of.

Hello Paploo,

Are you coming from Ireland or another country? I have been dreaming of such a thing for a while now also.

If you are from the United States and looking for a textbook format that runs along the same lines of the template used by all other languages textbooks for languages such as Spanish, French...

The short answer is no.

There are Irish language textbooks in the format you are talking about. You can find them online. However, they are made in Ireland for Irish language students who are usually beyond the basics. These textbooks being used in Irish secondary and higher education are Irish only. So if you do not have a middle level Irish, they are really not worth your time or money...

So no, there is no Irish textbook for a beginner in that type of format.

The only real Irish textbook that takes a person from no Irish to a basic/middle level Irish is still Learning Irish by Mícheál Ó Siadhail.

What you are experiencing is one of the great flaws of Irish learning materials...there are plenty of introductory materials that give a taste of the language, but leave you no place to go from there.

I am certain it is only a matter of time before someone creates one, but you have to remember, the surge in Irish interest for higher education out of Ireland is still pretty recent. These materials are going to be coming from countries other than Ireland because Ireland is still refusing to approach the subject as an English speaker learning a foreign language.

And I think this is the type of textbook you are looking for.

If you are familiar with McGraw Hill, they have said that they are now willing to publish a test run for an Irish language course along the lines of their French "Vis-A-Vis", German "Wie Geht's, Italian "Prego"...and all there other languages.

However, they are waiting for someone to make a proposal. And due to the level of risk involved, they are looking for more "credible" authors. In other words, if you are not a panel of native speakers, or have a fancy degree in Irish/Celtic Studies...don't waste your time with them.

quote:

The only real Irish textbook that takes a person from no Irish to a basic/middle level Irish is still Learning Irish by Mícheál Ó Siadhail.

Learning Irish always struck me as being closer to what someone would expect in a college-level beginner's course (lots of prior grammar knowledge is assumed).
Nancy Stenson's Basic Irish is a bit more like something one would find in a secondary school (high school) outside of Ireland. When Paploo asks after "any textbooks that like a student might use in school", one doesn't know if the "school" in question is secondary or university.

Paploo -- care to specify?

Yeah,

That's why I figured Paploo might be coming from the States also.

We use the word school as an umbrella word.

"I have school today."

Could be, "I have primary school....secondary school...college/university today."

And most university/college intro language courses in the United States are using the same textbooks that are being used by our secondary schools. They are generally written to a standard 16 week semester program. However, secondary schools tend to spend an entire year in order to solidify the material.

But all of these books are assuming you were given the same standard English grammar regiment that is required for American schools.

Of course, a basic grammar knowledge is required for these books also, but they still say things like "A noun is a person, place, thing, or abstract idea."

Learning Irish goes beyond the standard grammar requirements, but it is still written as if he was taking a person with no Irish, and introducing it to them for the first time. And I think this is the approach that needs to be taken with Irish now because more people, both Irish and non-Irish, are learning it as a foreign language with no prior understanding of the language.

quote:

care to specify?

Yeah, I think there needs to be a little more description of what you mean. I went through "Irish on Your Own" and that struck me as very similar to my Spanish and German college textbooks, just shorter in length (and overall not much content). Believe it or not, there are many avenues available, including the Internet resources, but it may be that you don't find that perfect book. I have found, for my learning style and my learning desires, that I have to skim off "the cream" from many books.

(Message edited by seánw on December 30, 2009)

quote:

I was wondering if any one knows any textbooks that like a student might use in school, like a 300-500 page 1 inch thick text book. Like the same one would use to study algebra or world history.

This is another reason I think that Paploo might be coming from the States and refering to texbook format that has become pretty standard for American textbooks for both secondary and college/university textbooks today.

They are:

Usually Hard Cover
Usually 8.75' X 11' x 1+'
Usually Between 300-700 pages
Usually 16 chapters or sections a standard 16 week course
Usually thematic in their teaching approach

Pretty standard deminsions for a texbook found in any US school these days.

If I am understanding Paploo correctly, they are looking for a Irish language textbook that is similar to another language textbook they may have used in school like for Spanish, French, or German....

And sadly, this doesn't exist. At least not for Irish as a Second Language.

There are books like:

An dTuigeann Tú Anois É 1,2,3

This is along the format I think they want...but this is a paperback book. And I am pretty certain it is only in Irish. So if you are a complete beginner...this could be a train wreck without help.

Draíocht 1,2,3,4,5

Again paperback...but I must serious warn you this is not for beginners. It says it is for first year people...by first year they mean after having 10 years of it in primary and secondary school with an Irish teacher.

Fís and Fís Eile

Now Fís is a little more "newbie" friendly. They at least assume you are not very good with the language and they walk you through the steps more than the others...if you are going this route. I would look at this course first. And after it is finished go to Fís Eile which is for years 2 and 3. And more advanced.

Fiúntas 1,2

I having seen this one yet...it is pretty new. From my reading it is just a bunch of readings. Good for reading Irish and learning new vocabulary...not good for learning Irish.

Now if you are looking for actual history, chemistry, or business textbooks in Irish? Yes, they have those also.

What you will find is that there are a lot of materials for primary education. And while it may seem insulting to an adult to use them...a 30 year old and a 3 year old have a lot in common when it comes to learning a new language. The difference is the 3 year old picks it up faster ;)

But once you get to the secondary education...well, you start seeing that it's not about the language. It is all about the leaving cert. Or at least it was. And most of the materials seem still geared to this end.

And then advanced materials are university level books that are really only meant for those who already have a decent level of Irish to begin with, but need something to do while at university.

(Message edited by do_chinniúint on December 30, 2009)

Sorry I was unclear and a little slow to respond. I meant at a university level. I am from the USA and have found a few makeshift groups around that teach the language but none that are in my immediate area which makes it hard to consistantly show up. A textbook/workbook would be a good way for me to practice what i know (not that much, have been studying off and on for about 2 years) and learn some new stuff in between meeting up with more formal classes.

Thanks for all the responses I'll have to check out all these books and try and find which one(s) would be my best choice.

Also to clear things up I am looking for text books teaching Irish. Not textbooks teaching other subjects (history, algebra, etc.) that are written in Irish

In English I'd go with the two Nancy Stenson titles mentioned above. In Irish -

1992 Ó Baoill, Dónall P. & Ó Tuathail, Éamonn Úrchúrsa Gaeilge, Institiúid Teangeolaíochta Éireann, 0 946452 776

1993 Dónall P. & Ó Tuathail, Éamonn Úrchúrsa Gaeilge - Freagraí ar na Cleachtaí, Institiúid Teangeolaíochta Éireann, (no ISBN on copy)

I did a quick web search and couldn't find any for sale so maybe contact ITE directly. Together the two make up about 3/4 of an inch and are definitely first year text books ;-)

http://coislife.ie/books/academic/cruinn.htm

Cruinnscríobh na Gaeilge

Tá sé seo dírithe ar lucht ollscoile.

Paploo's overuse of the word 'like', marked him as American from the get go, as well as other classic giveaways.

@Aongus
http://coislife.ie/books/academic/cruinn2.htm
Cruinnscríobh na Gaeilge

Would this be too much of a leap after working through Progress in Irish? I really enjoy study!!
DMD

I've no idea. Being a [neo] native speaker, I use it as a work of reference. I have no experience learning or teaching Irish.

I'm sure somebody else will be able to advise you.

quote:

Would this be too much of a leap after working through Progress in Irish?

It would have been for me; being a rather average scholar, I needed simpler readers first.
If you're a bit more scholarly and motivated, perhaps Cruinnscríobh na Gaeilge will suit you well enough, though.

Would this be too much of a leap after working through Progress in Irish?

"Cruinnscríobh na Gaeilge" is probably worth having in the collection as a reference book anyway sooner or later. But as always, it is advisable to progress in a measured fashion; something you will be able to handle in six months time might unnecessarily discourage you now.

I get the feeling that the special aspect to "Cruinnscríobh na Gaeilge" is that it is based on feedback from students and thus irons out things in areas that are maybe not dealt with so comprehensively hitherto.

Of course, the advantage of grammar books and other books in the "official" mode, that adhere more or less to the caighdeán, is that they are easier to read/comprehend.

A little further on you might like to try "Ón nGorta Anall" http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=603 ,for example. If you are interested in history, you can combine language learning with interesting content - which is symbiotically speaking a positive combination.

Thanks everybody. I don't think I am above the average as a scholar (I was usually middle 2.1 at uni in the recent past)and unfortunately there were no Irish modules in my BSc. I do however love to study, and am studying Irish with all the energy I can muster. As Ormondo has probably rightly stated I will need "Cruinnscríobh na Gaeilge" sooner or later. Any recommendations then as to what I should study next after Progress In Irish?
I must acknowledge my gratitude for the answers to PII exercises that I got via some Dalti Board poster (sorry I can't remember your name!)on the Conradh na Gaeilge New England site. What a tremendous resourse and great for the inevitable constant revision of PII that I know I must do!!
le meas
DMD

Aonghus or others,
Is the CD to "Cruinnscríobh na Gaeilge" simply a copy of the book, or is there more? Does it run through a grammar program, or is it a PDF. Thanks for any info.

It is only a PDF of the book.

quote:

Nancy Stensons "workbooks" are a bit like textbooks:

http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Irish-Grammar-Workbook-Workbooks/dp/041541041X/

http://www.amazon.com/Intermediate-Irish-Grammar-Workbook-Workbooks/dp/041541042 8

Cheannaigh mé an leabhar seo. Its a good book and exactly what I was looking for. Go raibh maith agat.