I frequently see "a dh'-" used before a relative beginning with a vowel or "f".
I have two questions about it:

1. How widespread is it? I know it's usually associated with Munster and Ulster but is it used throughout those areas or only in certain places?

2. Is it used before an "f" followed by another consonant, i.e. "a fhreagairt" or "a dh'fhreagairt"?

Go raibh maith agaibh.

quote:

2. Is it used before an "f" followed by another consonant, i.e. "a fhreagairt" or "a dh'fhreagairt"?

As far as I know you don't use it in this case. Normally the dh' (besides being etymological - it comes from the preposition "do") is used to avoid a hiatus between the particle/preposition "a" and a vowel, but "fhr" is pronounced as an r, so no need to put a dh' there.

Looking back over my post I've realised the example I used isn't actualy a relative but the infinitive form of the verb as in:

"Níorbh fhéidir leis an cheist a fhreagairt."

While the following would be relative:

"Is é an fear a fhreagair an cheist."

Is "a dh'-" used in both cases?

quote:

Normally the dh' (besides being etymological - it comes from the preposition "do") is used to avoid a hiatus between the particle/preposition "a"

I find that hiatus, and needless pronunciation of the particle, one of the more unattractive features of poorly pronounced Irish e.g. "Ba mhaith liom an béile a ithe" (...[be:lə æ ihə]).


Again, does anyone know if this feature is used throughout Ulster and Munster or only in certain areas?

(Message edited by James_Murphy on December 13, 2009)

quote:

"Níorbh fhéidir leis an cheist a fhreagairt."

While the following would be relative:

"Is é an fear a fhreagair an cheist."

Is "a dh'-" used in both cases?

Déarfaí:
Níorbh fhéidir leis an cheist a fhreagairt.
Is é an fear a d'fhreagair an cheist. (déarfaí "d'fhreagair sé" fosta srl)

quote:

one of the more unattractive features of poorly pronounced Irish e.g. "Ba mhaith liom an béile a ithe" (...[be:lə æ ihə]).

Yes, and pronouncing "ag" as "egg" before all verbal nouns, and the article always as "an"... while you drop parts of them most of the time.

Anyway, I'd pronounce

/bu waix' l'am ə b'e:l'ə jix'ə/ (bu mhaith liom a' béile 'dh'ithe).

quote:

Níorbh fhéidir leis an cheist a fhreagairt.
Is é an fear a d'fhreagair an cheist. (déarfaí "d'fhreagair sé" fosta srl)

So it's not used before the relative, only before the infinitive form? -
"Tá sé chun a dhinnéar a dh'ithe."
but not in
"Is é an fear a itheann/itheas a dhinnéar."

quote:

and pronouncing "ag" as "egg" before all verbal nouns

Maybe the Scots have the right idea using "a'" before a verbal noun beginning with a consonant.

quote:

So it's not used before the relative, only before the infinitive form? -
"Tá sé chun a dhinnéar a dh'ithe."
but not in
"Is é an fear a itheann/itheas a dhinnéar."

Yes in Ulster.
However, in Corca Dhuibhne, they stick the dh' in many other places. I think they'd say "Is é an fear a dh'itheann a dhinnéar" and things like that.

An chéad bhean go ndeachaigh mé a dh’amharc uirthi.

“This feature of Donegal Irish appears with verbs that imply movement or activity. Dh is prefixed to verbs that begin with a vowel and verbs beginning with a consonant are lenited.”

Speaking Irish, pg. 14

That is to say:
Vowel: a + dh’
Consonant: a + lenition

Yes, James, the a dh' is used both in relative clauses and in terms of governing the verbal noun. It is a Munster feature (at least). I don't know about Ulster.

Béile is feminine in Munster.

So your sentence would be:

ba mhaith liom an bhéile a dh'ithe (ə jihi)

if you want examples from literature, I can rustle some up

From Peter O'Leary's My Own Story:

"ach nár bh' fhéidir aon daoine eile dh'fhághail a dh'fhéadfadh oiread cíosa dhéanamh as an dtalamh agus a dh'fhéadaidís sin a dhéanamh"

translation: but they wouldn't be able to find any other people who could produce as much rent from the land as they could.


You can see a dh' before both the relative and as the particle governing the verbal noun. Note that the "a" is often left out, and you just get straight "dh". You can also see the dh delenited to d: "cromadh airís..ar an arán cruithneachtan d'ithe i n-inead na bulóige báine" (from the same book). The -n of cruithneachtan probably delenites dh'ithe to d'ithe.

From Timcheall Chinn Sléibhe, 1933, Seán Ó Dalaigh:
Nuair a bhíonn paidreacha na marbh críochnuithe ag an sagart i n-aice na huaighe, iarrann sé ar na daoinibh go léir a bhíonn láithreach dul ar a nglúinibh. Deireann sé féin úrnaithe annsan, agus deineann na daoine é dh'fhreagairt.

I think Lughaidh is right to say that fhr does not require a dh, but that is not the same thing as saying you won't see a dh in that context in Munster literature:

na haird ó thuaidh, 1960 Pádraig Ua Maoileoin:

N'fheadarsa ar thaitnigh an cheist le Séamas nó nár thaitnigh, ach is mar seo a dh'fhreagair sé mo dhuine…

Thanks all for those responses.
Very interesting.
I have many of those older books including "Mo Sgéal Féin" but it's often difficult to know if the author is using a slightly archaic literary dialect or representing in detail real, living speech.

As usual it's never as straightforward as I initially imagined :)

quote:

An chéad bhean go ndeachaigh mé a dh'amharc uirthi.
"This feature of Donegal Irish applies to verbs that imply movement or activity. "Dh" is prefixed to verbs that begin with a vowel and verbs beginning with a consonant are lenited."
Speaking Irish, p.14

Yes, but 'Speaking Irish' misses the fact that 'go' is a Munster-specific usage (in this context). In Ulster and Connacht Irish only those under the influence of English would use 'go' instead of 'a'. (Unfortunately, 'those' = 'the many').

(Message edited by Hugo on December 16, 2009)

Cathal uses non-Ulster features sometimes (I'm too lazy to verify if he says "ndeachaigh" or the Ulster form "dteachaigh").

Normally people say "An chéad bhean a dteachaigh mé a dh'amharc (or amhanc) orthaí".

Thanks, Lughaidh.

Hugo, I was just giving an example from the book which happened to be a Donegal speaker. If Cathal Ó Searcaigh, the speaker cited, uses go, then it is just instructive that native Gaeltacht speakers will/are swapping traditional usages. He's a poet!

He's a poet and that's why he uses forms from elsewhere (not sure he would do, though, when speaking with people from his area). Normally other people don't (except sometimes younger speakers use some forms learnt at school).

I can't fish it out today, but there is a lot of information on "dh'" in Gaelainn Chorca Dhuibhne

"go" is Munster specific, but Hugo I don't think "go" is "under the influence of English". The 1900 edition of the Christian Brothers' Grammar argued that "go" derived from "ag a".