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Seabhac
Member Username: Seabhac
Post Number: 159 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 03:19 am: |
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First of all I want to ask about the book's name: An Braon Broghach - it says in the dictionary that it's the first drippings of distillation or impure spirits. What does the phrase "impure spirits" mean: is it only from the alcohol world or can it be a metaphore? I also need help in translating this passage from page 41 in the book (An Taoille Tuile): Ach ní raibh sé ina náire cheart uirthi go raibh uirthi a dhul 'ag slupáil'. thanks in advance! |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9238 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 04:08 am: |
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It can be a metaphor. And probaly is in this case. I'll come back to you on the other when I've read the passage. |
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Seabhac
Member Username: Seabhac
Post Number: 160 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 08:05 am: |
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so metaphorically it would be spirits (not the alcohol ones) that are? what would you suggest? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9240 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 08:23 am: |
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I was thinking more that it referred to the mixed nature of humans - about which the stories seem to be. I don't remember any supernatural aspect to them. Is there a story called "An Braon Broghach" in the collection? I can't remember. |
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Taidhgín
Member Username: Taidhgín
Post Number: 533 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 12:23 pm: |
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I imagine "an braon broghach" is simply "the bad drop" a familiar phrase in Ireland as in "That family have the bad drop in them". A bad trait? A bad streak of character? It is a very cruel menacing title for a story and reminds us of the harsh judgemental taunts of rural Ireland long ago. No wonder America beckoned to so many. "Broghach" pronounced "bróch" in north Mayo is something like "filthy" or "awful" as in "an seancheo broghach sin" (that awful fog) |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9245 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 03:42 pm: |
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Níl scéal leis an teideal sin sa leabhar. Tá dealramh le tuairim Thaidhgín. Maidir le quote:Ach ní raibh sé ina náire cheart uirthi go raibh uirthi a dhul 'ag slupáil'. Níl mé cinnte díreach cad atá i gceist le slupáil. Deir Ó Dónaill gurbh ionann é agus slapaireacht slovenliness San alt sin, tá cás Mhairéad bhocht ag éirí níos truamhéalaí, agus goimh ag teacht ar a fear chuici - tá triúr ón gclann eile ann, agus iad cleachtaithe - agus eisean taobh le bean nach bhfuil taithí cladaigh aici. Is dócha go bhfuil sí chomh tuirseach sin agus cráite nach bhfuil sí ag obair go paiteanta níos mó. |
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Seabhac
Member Username: Seabhac
Post Number: 161 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 04:05 pm: |
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thanks, the braon broghach information is helpful. Thanks Aaonghus, yet again! |
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Seánw
Member Username: Seánw
Post Number: 285 Registered: 07-2009
| Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 05:00 pm: |
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quote:Is é is brí leis an teilgean cainte an braon broghach ná an chéad bhraon poitín a thagann as an stil, is é sin, as an ngléas driogtha, nuair a bhítear ag déanamh poitín. http://ga.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Braon_Broghach (Message edited by seánw on November 25, 2009) I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9250 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 05:04 pm: |
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Sea, agus tá an braon céanna nimhneach de ghnáth. As sin an chiall mheafarach. |
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Seabhac
Member Username: Seabhac
Post Number: 162 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 04:28 pm: |
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another question: what do you understand from the next passage? Ba é uain na máthar é ar deireadh thiar. Níor phóg sí a hiníon ó bhí sí ina páiste cheana. 1. what do you understand from the sentences starting in "Níor"? 2. What do you think ceana means? thanks! (Message edited by seabhac on November 28, 2009) |
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Breandán
Member Username: Breandán
Post Number: 333 Registered: 12-2008
| Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 05:17 pm: |
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Níor phóg sí a hiníon ó bhí sí ina páiste cheana. "She had not kissed her daughter since she (i.e., her daughter) was a child." 1. Níor = did not, had not 2. cheana is the dictionary form and doesn't mutate. In this case I think it links to ó to give the sense of "ever since". |
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Seánw
Member Username: Seánw
Post Number: 289 Registered: 07-2009
| Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 05:29 pm: |
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quote:Níor phóg sí a hiníon ó bhí sí ina páiste cheana. She did not kiss her daughter since she was her favorite child. ceana > gen sg of cion Addition: I see someone else contribution. Please correct me if I am wrong! I want to learn to! (Message edited by seánw on November 28, 2009) I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.
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Seánw
Member Username: Seánw
Post Number: 290 Registered: 07-2009
| Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 05:34 pm: |
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Seabhac, Ignore my previous contribution. I am wrong. I see now what Breandán is saying. ó ... cheana = since ... before, or as he puts it "ever since". Sorry to be hasty there! I ndiaidh a chéile a thógtar na caisleáin.
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Ormondo
Member Username: Ormondo
Post Number: 575 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 07:25 pm: |
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Seabhac, if you are looking for a glossary of the more difficult terms in An Taoille Tuile have a look here: http://ormondo-fon.blogspot.com/2009_06_01_archive.html Is geal leis an bhfiach dubh a ghearrcach féin.
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Seabhac
Member Username: Seabhac
Post Number: 163 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 11:52 pm: |
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Actually I'm trying to see what the common reading of this passage is, and how you understand it. Well, I got an answer, thanks for all. |
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Seabhac
Member Username: Seabhac
Post Number: 164 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 09:14 am: |
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I found in An Braon Braoghach on page 15 this: Ba Cholm sportha é arís tar éis an liostachais. Before Colm there's no é. Is it a kind of Colm - not the specific referred to by the name? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9274 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 10:28 am: |
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No, I think it is the specific person - Colm - that is meant. Whatever has just happened has restored his energy to him. |
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Seabhac
Member Username: Seabhac
Post Number: 165 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 11:45 am: |
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In that case, why is there no é before Colm, like one would have expected here? It's the same case with the definite noun after "Is": Is é an fear é... Or is it not? |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9275 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 12:04 pm: |
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You need the grammar gurus for that one. I read it as Ba (Cholm sportha) é arís I don't think another é is required. Ba mac léinn é Ba fear mór é I think this is the same. |
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Hugo
Member Username: Hugo
Post Number: 30 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 01:55 pm: |
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"Ba Cholm sportha é arís" - He/it was a "stimulated/inflamed/enthusiastic?" Colm again (classification, not identification). At least, that's my reading of it, the same as "Colm sportha a bhí ann arís" 'An Foclóir Beag' gives 'sportha' as the vb. adj. of 'sporadh' (related to 'spur'?)= 'gríosú'. The verb 'sporadh' isn't in my 'Foclóir Beag', but the adjective 'sportha' is, = 'exhausted', 'broke'. ??? (Message edited by Hugo on November 29, 2009) |
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Seabhac
Member Username: Seabhac
Post Number: 166 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 02:05 pm: |
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So you read Colm as one embodiment of Colm, one side of Colm not the whole entity?! |
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Seabhac
Member Username: Seabhac
Post Number: 167 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 02:06 pm: |
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maybe "it was A stimulated Colm"? |
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Hugo
Member Username: Hugo
Post Number: 31 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 02:24 pm: |
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Isn't that what I said? LOL. But look in your FGB for a more apt translation of 'sportha'. |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9276 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 03:04 pm: |
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Actually, after reading the passage again, I think the meaning is "broken" Ba Cholm sportha é arís tar éis an liostachais. He was a broken Colm again after the long illness. (Before this sentence it talks about the doctors taking money off him and his siblings, but doing him no good. The next passage says he is fit again, but not up to working as hard as he did before. This is the second catastrophe to hit him - after he lost all his savings when the bank where he had it collapsed) |
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Seabhac
Member Username: Seabhac
Post Number: 168 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 03:44 pm: |
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GRMA |
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Hugo
Member Username: Hugo
Post Number: 32 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 04:04 pm: |
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Banks collapse.? Nah, not possible... |
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Seabhac
Member Username: Seabhac
Post Number: 169 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 04:14 am: |
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What is scail gartha? The whole passage is (from Idir shúgradh agus dáiríre, page 117): Tháinig a sháith iontais ar gach uile dhuine gur fhág an scail ghártha a bhuail an caisleán an oiread is cloch ar a fhud... Thanks. |
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Seabhac
Member Username: Seabhac
Post Number: 170 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 05:02 am: |
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and another word I can't find in the dictionary: (droichead) spioróide |
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Aonghus
Member Username: Aonghus
Post Number: 9307 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 06:09 am: |
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scal can mean blast Does "Scal gártha" a blast of shouts make sense? (I don't have the book). Something like the trumpet knocking Jericho. I'd say the second is " a spirit bridge" |
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Taidhgín
Member Username: Taidhgín
Post Number: 543 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 06:38 am: |
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I don't know the answer ... but the word "gártha" occurs in one of the poems we learnt by heart long ago at school "Bhí gríosghrua gártha aici agus loinnir ina ciabh mar ór / is gurb (gurbh?) é aoibhneas an domhain bheith ag amharc ar an ríoghain óg." I think that is from Úrchill an Chreagáin. It is in praise of the beauty of a "spéirbhean" -- her blushing cheeks and the golden lustre of her hair. As for your sentence, while I still haven't a notion what it means apart from the obvious words: Everyone was amazed that the "scáil ghártha" [warm glow / shadow??] that "hit" [enveloped? covered? suffused?] the castle left [not????] as much as a stone ar a fhud??? If I knew the rest of the paragraph context I could probably venture a translation. For example if the castle is actually being attacked the meaning of scail ghártha could be equivalent to a "hot / vivid blast" and "ar a fhud" anywhere but without the rest of the context I have to admit defeat. Did the castle vanish? Was the scail ghártha some supernatural beam or flash of light that caused it to disintegrate "ar a fhud" all over? Níl a fhios agam. Please note that I don't mention the perennial old chestnuts "dialect" or "typo". Ó Cadhain was a rare genius, a passionate revolutionary, who pilloried the high and mighty with relentless ferocity in letters to the newspapers and in numerous pamphlets, a serious scholar and an almost monoglot Irish speaker - at least in his youth - who had a voracious appetite for all possible dialects including those of Scottish Gaelic and never hesitated to tease his readers (however few, myself included - 40 years ago and more ) with a play on words from them all. In later life he aquired some knowledge of numerous other languages including Gaidhlig, French, and Russian. His English was distinctive and similar in pitch to the voice of W.B.Yeats. "Scail" is so close to "scáil" that I'd be tempted but I'm sure those who consult the dictionaries will come up with some surprises. I look forward to a definitive answer to this. |
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Peter
Member Username: Peter
Post Number: 653 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 10:33 am: |
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quote:Tháinig a sháith iontais ar gach uile dhuine gur fhág an scail ghártha a bhuail an caisleán an oiread is cloch ar a fhud... Everyone was really surprised that the loud blast that blew up the castle left nothing but stones scattered all over the place (i.e. where the castle stood). Is é an chiall atá le "gártha" i gConamara, "loud, intense". Níl an scéal leite agam ach sin é an chiall a bhainim as an abairt seo gan mórán comhthéacs. 'Na trí rud is deacra a thoghadh – bean, speal agus rásúr'
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Seabhac
Member Username: Seabhac
Post Number: 171 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 02:14 pm: |
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Well, it does mention a thunder, so I guess the meaning of loud blast fits well. And thanks for the interpretations. GRMA. |
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