Daveat168
Member Username: Daveat168
Post Number: 56 Registered: 08-2009
| Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 11:26 am: |
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A chairde, Dia dhaoibe. I have now completed the re-typsetting, and awaiting proof-readers. What I have discovered though, is that whereas my system, Q+D lacked a sound foundation of Irish vowel sounds, it was thoroughly disciplined, but whereas LS is soundly based on Irish pronunciation, discipline and method seems, at least to my English eyes to be somewhat lacking. Points I do not like are: 1/ There remain some 'aspirated' consonants, 'ch' and 'gh', and there is a totally strange consonant pair, a direct English import, which will cause confusion on upgrading, namely, slender 's', which uses an 'h' glide as in English. This will need to be 'unlearned'. 2/ I am dubious about the use of 'y' as a broad 'i'. It does make some sense, but I feel that 'y' should be used for slender 'gh', maybe then, as in Q+D, 'q' could stand for broad 'gh'. Also, LS retains 'ch', which would better be represented by 'x', as in IPA. 3/ As an English learner of Irish, I have difficulty with the concept of 'glides' This is not a problem in speech, as listen, and repeat, takes care of them automatically, however, when written, they are ambiguous with true diphthongs, and require an extra knowledge base to discriminate them. I see two posibilities here: a/ Where both vowels in the diphthong are equally emphasized, insert a 'y' glide, or a 'w' glide between them, as would be appropriate, or, b/ Where only one of the pair is emphasized, the 'y' or 'w' glide may suffice, and the second vowel be omitted. This idea might also extend to triphthongs. Setting aside any doubts I might have with 'y', and choosing 'j' as consonantal 'i' iaw IPA, let me look at how I would treat the Irish words Ó Cuív uses on page 18 of part 2. eá: beár, feár, geár, meán: bjár, fjár, gjár, mján. ái: dáil, fáil, Máiri, láir, gáiri, amáireach: dájl, fájl, Májri, lájr, gájri, amájr, now is it jax, or is it iwx? eái: cisheáin, tisbeáin, mileáin, Cheáin: cisjájn, tisbjájn, miljájn, Xjájn. eó: ceól, beól, ceólán, deól, deónú, feócha: cjól, bjól, clólán, djól, djónú, fjóxa. ói: cóir, dóiv, fóil, lóin, móin, móid, nóin, tóir: cójr, dójv, fójl, lójn, mójn, mójd, nójn, tójr. eói: ceóil, feóil, dreóil: cjójl, fjójl, drjójl. iú: fiú, fiún, ciún, miún, liú, diúga, priúnsa, tiûsgal: fjú, fjún, cjún, mjún, ljú, djúga, prjúnsa, tjûsgal. úi: cúigi, dúil, fúiv, fúing, lúib, lúireach, múini, púicín, arúir: cújgi, dújl, fújv, fújng, lújb, lújreach, mújni, pújcín, arújr. iúi: ciúin, miliúin, figiúir: cjújn, miljújn, figjújr. ea: geata, peata, peaca, beaca, beart, beaha, ceapa, leaba, geatuiri: geyta, peyta, peyca, beyca, beyrt, beyha, ceypa, leyba, geytujri. I can see 'y' used as a broad glide in these words. ai: airím, bail, baili, caile, cailín, caiti, dair, fairi, mairi, tair: ajrím, bajl, bajli, cajle, cajlín, cajti, dajr, fajri, majri, tajr. eai: geaitiri: gjajtiri. eo: leog, beog: ljog, bjog. oi: loit, toil, goil, goiv, roiv. Now these would be utterly amiguous if it were not for the orthography, so here LS fails utterly. Orthogrphy suggests they should be: lojt, tojl, gojl, gojv, rojv: but reading LS, one might easily read as: lwit, twil, gwil, gwiv, rwiv! iu: ciun, giura, gliugar: again ambiguous, but here, the orthography is of no help. Only the knowledge base helps here, but the learner has no knowledge base. Which is the glide? Is it: cjun, gjura, gljugar, or is it: ciyn, giyra, gliygar? ae: bael, Gael, tael: These too could be ambiguous. Knowledge base, using Gael, shows e to be the glide, so: bajl, Gajl, tajl: but consider bwel, Gwel, twel! éa: buidéal, Síshgéal, páipéar: bujdéyl, Syisgéyl, pájpéyr. uí: cuíni, duíni, muíntir, cuíri, buín, muíl, sguíl, cuíl, ghuíl: cwíni, dwíni, mwíntir, cwíri, bwín, mwíl, sgwíl, cwíl, qwíl. ío: bíon, chíon, fíon, líon, díon, díonán, píopa, tíorho: bíwn, chíwn, fíwn, líwn, díwn, díwnán, píwpa, tíwrho. ui: buin, buin, cuir, cuin, tuir, duine, muin, muini, luigi, luiv: again mbiguous! Consider: bwin, bwin, cwir, twir, dwini, mwin, mwini, lwigi, lwiv: or bujn, buyn, cujr, cujn, tujr, dujni, mujn, mujni, lujgi, lujv. io: fiona, miona, bior: again ambiguous! Is it fiyna, or fjona, miyna or mjona, biyr or bjor? Does this make a valid point, or am I just rattling on about my hobby-horse? Go raibh maith agat. Slán. Dave. Mar sın, dá ḃrıġ sın, níl beart níos críonna 'Ná ḃeıṫ go síorruıḋe ag cur preab san ól. Rıocard Baıréad.
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