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The Daltaí Boards » Archive: 2005- » 2009 (September-October) » Archive through September 24, 2009 » Lárchanúint don Ghaeilge « Previous Next »

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Seánw
Member
Username: Seánw

Post Number: 111
Registered: 07-2009


Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 02:07 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I know that this topic causes controversy, but it seems appropriate to start a new thread on it now since I previously said I would and it is coming into discussion again. I post this for information’s sake, knowing that the best method of pronunciation is the one which is understood and communicates what you wish to communicate.

The Lárchanúint is an artificial pronunciation scheme developed by Mr. Donall Ó Baoill in the late 1970s to the early 1980s for the Foclóir Póca project. It was under the direction of the then Roinn Oideachais and the Institiúid Teangeolaíochta Éireann. The project was to be a learner’s dictionary which would feature a single pronunciation for each head-word based on the spelling of the word. This scheme was called by Ó Baoill the Lárchanúint which means it is a “central dialect”. Central in this case represented a “compromise” or “middle ground” between the features of the three main pronunciations of Ireland. Particularly he was interested in the “core features” common to all Irish pronunciation. Another book which examines these “core features” is “Modern Irish: Grammatical Structure and Dialectal Variation” by Mr. Mícheál Ó Siadhail. He purposely avoiding the term “standard of speaking” (caighdeán labhartha) precisely because he did not intend for it to supplant or compete with the dialectical pronunciations, but to be an aid for learner’s and perhaps used in contexts which demanded "cross-dialectical" communication.

With that said there were seven rules devised to govern the pronunciations:

1) Níl aon riail fuaime le fáil inti nach riail bheo i gcanúint éigin de chuid na Gaeilge í.
2) Tá buaine ag baint léi tríd an chóras ar fad.
3) Tá cibé rialacha a socraíodh simplí, rialta agus chomh saor ó eisceachtaí agus ab fhéidir.
4) Tá gaol soiléir idir an litriú caighdeánach mar atá san fhoclóir agus fuaimniú aon ghuta, aon chonsain nó aon fhocail.
5) Rinneadh iarracht malartaíocht nach raibh gá léi taobh istigh de fhocail i suímh éagsúla a sheachaint.
6) Glacadh láithreach le fuaimniú nó le riail a bhí mar chuid choiteann ag na canúintí go léir.
7) I gcás na béime ar fhocail iasachta nó ar fhocail ar cuireadh traslitriú i bhfeidhm orthu, rinneadh iarracht iad a dhúchasú ar na bealaí a bhí le fáil sa Ghaeilge féin go dtí seo.

With this now said, I will post the pronunciation scheme given in the Lárchanúint if it seems that some people are interested in that here.

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Bodhrán
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Username: Bodhrán

Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2009
Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 02:50 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Tá suim agam ann, go raibh ma'ad.

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Peter
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Username: Peter

Post Number: 615
Registered: 01-2006


Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 03:11 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Muise, a chréatúirín, cén fáth a leithide d'ainm "féin-cháinte" ort, a Bhodhráin? ;) Níl mé ach ag spiochadh asad.

'Na trí rud is deacra a thoghadh – bean, speal agus rásúr'

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 8830
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 03:25 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Is iomaí duine nach dtuigeann go bhfuil níos mó i gceist le Bodhrán agus craiceann gabhair á bhuailtear le fuaim a bhaint as. (Le scian póca is fearr san a dhéanamh, dar le Séamas Ennis).

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Taidhgín
Member
Username: Taidhgín

Post Number: 479
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 04:31 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Bheadh an-suim agam ann. Nuair a bhíos-sa óg ní bhíodh ach cúpla focal ar ghá duit a athrú ar do bhealach duit ó Chléire go Toraigh: d'athrófá iontach ó "úntach" go "íontach" agus bradán ó "burdááán" go "brad-'n"; ach tá cúpla focal fós ann nach bhfuil a fhios agam cén chaoi a bhfuaimnítear iad i gcanúint ar bith: méanfach, fionnadh, agus céadfa.

English translation
I would be very interested in that. When I was young there were only a few words you needed to change on your way [travelling] from Cape Clear to Tory: you would change iontach from "úntach" to "íontach" and bradán from "burdááán" to "brad-'n"; but there are still a few words that I do not know how they are pronounced in any dialect: méanfach, fionnadh, and céadfa.

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Lughaidh
Member
Username: Lughaidh

Post Number: 3195
Registered: 01-2005


Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 06:03 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

I guess méanfach is /m'e:nu:x/ in Connemara, maybe /m'e:nəfah/ in Ulster ; fionnadh is /f'uNhuw/ in Torr (southern Gweedore).
Céadfá is simply /k'e:dfa:/.

Learn Irish pronunciation here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/irishsounds/irishsounds.html & http://fsii.gaeilge.org/

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Seánw
Member
Username: Seánw

Post Number: 112
Registered: 07-2009


Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 06:41 pm:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Gutaí agus Défhoghair

In this table the 5 long vowels, 5 short vowels, schwa, and the 4 diphthongs represent pronunciations reflected by the local dialect. For example in Ulster short a would be /a/ while long a would be /æ/.


LitriúFuaimSuíomh
á eá ái eái/a:/I ngach áit
a ai ea/a:/Roimh rd rl rn faoi bhéim
a ai ea/a:/Roimh rr ag deireadh focal aonsiollach
Roimh rr agus consan
a ai ea eai/a/I siollaí faoi bhéim
ai/e/I siollaí faoi bhéim (Aige Aici Saibhir Daibhir.)
a(i)dh a(i)gh/ai/I siollaí faoi bhéim
(e)abh (e)amh/au/I siollaí faoi bhéim
ó eo eó eoi ói ió/o:/I ngach áit
o oi/o:/Roimh rd rl rn faoi bhéim
odh omha/o:/I roinnt focal
e eo oi/o/I siollaí faoi bhéim
obh omh odh ogh/au/I siollaí faoi bhéim
o/ə/I roinnt focal
ú úi iúi/u:/I ngach áit
u ui/u:/Roimh rd rl rn
umha ubha/u:/I roinnt focal
u iu/u/Faoi bhéim
u/o/Focail ón Bhéarla agus i roinnt focal Gaeilge (Lucht)
é éa éi ae aei/e:/I ngach áit
ei/e:/Roimh rd rl rn faoi bhéim
e ei ue/e/Faoi bhéim
e/ə/I roinnt focal
í ío aí oí uí uío ao aoi/i:/I ngach áit
i/i:/I roinnt focal ina bhfuil (Sióg Raidió)
io/i:/San focal Iontach
i io ui/i/Faoi bhéim agus ag deireadh roinnt forainmneacha pearanta sa triú pearsa uatha bainiscneach
a ai e ea i o oi u ui/ə/I siollaí gan bhéim
Gan a bheith scríofa/ə/Idir péirí áirithe consan i ndiaidh guta gairid faoi bhéim
adh aidh agh aigh eidh eigh oidh oigh/ai/I siollaí faoi bhéim
abh eabh amh eamh obh odh ogh omh/au/I siollaí faoi bhéim
ia iai iadha/iə/I ngach áit
ua uai/uə/I ngach áit



I think the consonants are pretty straight forward so in a coming post I’ll cover only the peculiar pronunciations like in verbs.

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An_chilleasrach
Member
Username: An_chilleasrach

Post Number: 97
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 07:51 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Cád tá i gcoitianta idir seinnteoir bodhráin agus "groupie"?

Taitníonn an chuideachta ceoltóirí len beirt acú!

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Aonghus
Member
Username: Aonghus

Post Number: 8842
Registered: 08-2004


Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 07:57 am:   Small TextLarge TextEdit Post Print Post

Ach is fearr leis na ceoltóirí na gro[u]pies...



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